No Sympathy for the Incel

Last summer Ann Sterzinger asked me to participate in a podcast with alt.right writer Andy Nowicki in which we discussed incels.  “Incel” is a portmanteau that combines the words “involuntary celibacy.”  Incels, mostly young, alienated men, had (and have) been in the news due to several deadly rampages committed by young men with links to or assumed to be part of incel culture. This conversation took place shortly after the Santa Fe high school shooting, wherein a young man shot and killed ten people.  Sometimes the media got it right – Alek Minassian, the man who ran a van into a crowd in Toronto, was undeniably part of incel culture. The affiliation was far less clear with Dimitrios Pagourtzis, the young man who shot up the high school in Santa Fe, Texas, even though one of his victims was a girl who had refused to be his girlfriend. Either way, both attacks were presented as incel rampages in the press and suddenly all across the Internet people were talking about incels, as each month seemed to bring a new attack committed in the name of incel-ery.

The discussion with Andy dealt more with the macro of incel-ery, the big picture of how it is we’ve ended up with a group of unhappy and often unstable young men who loathe women, successful men, feminism, and the modern world.  I tend to focus on the micro, the individuals who make up movements, so I’m unsure how much I added to the conversation.  I wish I had been more on the ball because Andy Nowicki asked a very good, very humane question that this article is going to attempt to answer.

Andy wanted to know why it is that people find it so easy to mock and deride incels when they share what for them is very real, very tangible pain regarding their role in the modern world.  We laugh at these young men in a way we would not laugh at women who share their own pain.  Though there are a lot of ideas that “incel” covers, the primary issue often boils down to men who are angry or sad that they cannot have the sorts of sexual relationships they prefer with the sorts of women they prefer.

However, when you look at the whole of what fuels this sort of discontent, you see a group of human beings who feel like the modern world has stripped them of all dignity, decent employment prospects, and possible family life.  Plenty focus their anger on the lack of sex that named the subculture but they also speak in depth about humiliations they experienced or perceived when just trying to talk to a woman, apply for a job, speak in class, go to a gym, pay for cigarettes and on and on.

It’s a litany of human misery and it’s interesting that among leftists who decry “toxic masculinity,” those very people find it easy to mock men who report crying when being rejected or rebuffed, who reveal vulnerability when they report their inability to reach basic cultural milestones. It’s a question worth asking – why do we mock these particular men who reveal their weaknesses?

There are several answers to this question.  Among them: chivalry isn’t dead yet and we live in a culture in the West wherein we punish emotional response in men while rewarding it in women.  But it’s curious that many still mock incels even after seeing the harm these disenfranchised young men can do.

Initially, when people see the entitled whining some incels engage in online, people mock them because if you aren’t experiencing youthful angst yourself, reading it wears thin and can seem ridiculous.  But we continue to mock them after seeing incel mass murders because there’s something inherently ridiculous in the idea that anyone would consider sex such a natural human right that they could justify murder in the name of libido.

This is a very long article, tl;dr on a grand scale.  The rest is under the cut.

This question regarding mockery is important for me because I’m discussing Elliot Rodger’s manifesto, My Twisted World, in my upcoming book that analyzes manifestos that straddle the line between personal apologia for criminal activity and platforms for political and social goals.  Elliot Rodger, arguably the most famous incel, killed six people and himself in a planned rampage that he hoped would be an act of vengeance against the people whom he felt had lives better than his.  Alek Minassian referenced Elliot as a role model and for many incels Elliot Rodger is a patron saint of sorts.

Elliot Rodger’s manifesto evokes a lot of emotions for me.  He was undeniably an elitist and self-absorbed to the point of utter paranoia, but in that paranoia was a young man whose sole sense of self relied upon obtaining female companionship. He was so overwhelmed with anxiety throughout most of his life that you’d have to possess a heart of stone not to have some pity, however minor, for him.  It was excruciating reading how he assigned his failures to factors that had nothing to do with how his anxiety, personality flaws, and fear consumed his self-assurance and ambition.

Elliot was the son of a semi-successful film director and a grandson of a famous photographer. He loved his mother and both his grandmothers (though he expressed bizarre anger towards his mother near the end), even expressing kind feelings for his step-grandmother though he loathed his step-mother. He had many female teachers he liked and praised.  He hardly seemed like a young man whose life would take the misogynistic course that it did. But to anyone who read his manifesto with an eye focused on understanding how Elliot ended up a self-pitying, aimless, violent incel, there were clear, unambiguous answers to that question.  Elliot’s manifesto, frustrating to read at times because he was so very unlikable, was all the harder to read when I realized that many people like Andy may think that the sad confused Elliot, the sympathetic and melodramatic boy who tried to learn to be a skateboarder to fit in with cool kids, was the same Elliot who shot and stabbed people because blondes he never spoke to dared live a life that did not involve him.

Elliot underwent a transformation from awkward preteen terrified of being humiliated to a vicious, nasty misogynist who focused his rage at attractive blonde women and the men they dated.  More than once he threw drinks at couples who infuriated him because they were happy in his presence.  He dropped college classes multiple times because he could not bear to see pretty blondes speaking to other men.  He even eavesdropped on his sister having sex, outraged that she lost her virginity before he did.  People around him noticed his descent from the shy, anxiety-ridden teen to a man so angry about being a virgin that he wanted to kill blonde women, women he never made an attempt to meet, women who had no idea a total stranger felt rejected by them. His family tried to get him help. Acquaintances and friends confronted his foul opinions. People saw what was in front of them but law enforcement cannot arrest and detain permanently a person with foul ideas who has not acted on them. His videos were alarming to everyone who saw them – he was obviously a ticking time bomb. But if you did not know he had killed six people, his manifesto would be unremarkable compared to statements from similarly unwell young men.

With Elliot’s manifesto fresh in my mind, I can tell you, as unbelievable as it may seem, My Twisted Life pales in comparison to some of the rhetoric from his online brethren. Some of it is ridiculous posturing that some take seriously only because a handful of incels have done the worst, and much of incel communication is filled with over-the-top statements, depressing whining, and self-entitled ranting. Researching the milieu for which Elliot is now a hero means I have read some terrible things, nasty content that in no way shows us how we have ended up with these unhappy, angry men because too often their rhetoric is based in belief, not experience.  Alongside sad posts wherein young men talk about feeling too ugly or awkward to get a girlfriend, there are fantasies of violent rape and murder, with rhetoric including advocacy of pedophilia, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, necrobestiality, and bizarre expressions of racism. Faced with such extremity, some of it insincere, it’s hard not to roll my eyes. But the fact remains that Elliot, who killed people because he felt he had no hope of experiencing sex with a woman, somehow on paper is more sympathetic to me, a liberal feminist, than those who have taken up his mantle.  Of course once you read his manifesto with knowledge of his murders, Elliot becomes the worst of several evils, but also bear in mind what your reaction would be if you stumbled across some of what I plan to present here without previously exploring and trying to understand incel culture.  I feel a certain derision as I read some of these statements but if my step-father read this sort of rhetoric, it would make him sick.

Derision or nausea.  Those are the only real options one has when confronted with the bulk of incel rhetoric.  This extremity is nothing new – many incels are the other side of the radical feminist coin.  The same cultural centrists who recoil at Marilyn French’s insistence that all men are rapists haven’t flipped that coin to see some young men insisting all women deserve rape. Many people who come across incel rhetoric have no cultural knowledge of provocateurs like Jim Goad.  Goad came to liberal attention in the 1990s because of an infamous ‘zine he wrote and edited called ANSWER Me!  The fourth issue, the so-called “rape” issue, focused on sexual violence, mostly against women, and it infuriated feminists.

Many people missed the fact that Jim and the other ‘zine contributors were often using radical feminist ideas, writing in the voices radical feminists had assigned to them.  When their own beliefs about men were parroted back at them, feminists became enraged, almost as if it were the first time they were actually seeing in print all the evils they had assigned to men, which causes one to wonder why they were shocked when their accusations seemed to be bearing fruit.  Jim was pointing out the hyperbolic hysteria many radical feminists brought to the table, ideas that seldom had as much basis in reality as they wanted to believe.

For every person who can see the cultural roots of acting out in the voice the accuser assigned you, there are many more whose knowledge of incel-ery is derived from a kid on Reddit upset for an entire week because a cashier at the gas station didn’t smile at him the way she did at the guy in line behind him.  For every hundred anxious adults who have never had sex and are lonely, we see a news report about an incel committing an act of violence. We mock them because they are ridiculous and we mock them because we often mock that which terrifies us.  Think of the way Islamophobes speak of Muslims – they deride them as backwards and primitive even after they almost effortlessly took down a symbol of American progress and commerce.  We do similar things with incels.

And that’s problematic because it is very easy to take the outrageous ideas shared by unstable young men and assign them to the whole of incels.  Incels are as much a hashtag as a genuine social movement so there is no way for the kids who are feeling genuine pain and exclusion due to no fault of their own, or just going through a stage, to police the demented men who post about wanting to rape their mothers and have sex with dead dogs because modern women are just that evil that they have no choice.  Worse, those espousing such gross ideas are often the moderators of message boards and social media sites that cater to incels and various offshoots of thwarted masculinity, like MGTOWs and reactionary traditionalists who worry about what they consider toxic feminist influences.

Equally problematic are those who never see all the gross rhetoric.  They read the Reddit tale of that high school kid shattered because a girl didn’t make eye contact with him and assume that the incels who kill are outliers in an stigmatized but otherwise harmless group.  I suspect if what I plan to share in this article was well-known, popular reaction would shift from mockery to angry disgust.  In a way, mockery is the best reaction most incels could possibly hope for.

I don’t know Andy Nowicki well, but I suspect he would not want any of the men I am about to discuss coming anywhere near his wife or daughter.  I also don’t think he had any idea of the depravity one finds in the incel camps, group depravity that strips away sympathy for the individual.  He was looking at the big picture and as I mentioned I tend to look at the trees before the forest.  But once you have a grip on what the rank and file visitors to incel realms find online you will understand why people find it so easy to loathe and mock incels and why this largely incompetent group of young men are feared.  And it’s not just some sort of overreaction – there have been at least six massacres or murders in the USA since 2014 linked directly to the more loathsome ends of incel ideology. But even outside actual calls to arms, some incel beliefs are really so gross, unnerving, and depraved that short of outrage all you can do is mock. Sadly, that mockery trickles down to the kids who need understanding and the genuinely afflicted who need assistance.

These three specific men I am going to discuss are incels who have inspired outrage and mockery due to the extraordinarily horrible things they say and admit to doing. At times it’s clear that a lot of the over-the-top comments other incels are the result of them egging each other on, and that some of the comments are left by trolls intent on stirring the pot. But trolls or not, some incels seem unhinged and make it hard for even bleeding hearts like me to feel much empathy, even as I acknowledge the negative social influences that create incels (which is another tl;dr article in itself).

Before we begin, let me give some basic information for people unfamiliar with incels.

“Incel” covers a lot of ground.  Initially “incel” referred to both sexes – the term was coined by a woman who has since had a long dark night of the soul.  Her attempt at creating comfortable community for people who have a lot of trouble making romantic and sexual ties has now been twisted to such lengths that a convincing argument can be made that incels are a hate group. Under the label of “incel” you find varying types of mostly men, some sympathetic, some virulent, some days away from doing something dreadful.  Consider this the OTC Guide to Incel Subtypes:

Tier One: Here you find the sorts of men the incel label was created for.  This group consists of men who suffer from various physical and mental afflictions that make it hard for them to date or find a girlfriend.  Think quadriplegia, severe mental illness, extreme social anxiety, or appearances that radically differ from certain norms, like men with Treacher Collins syndrome, men who are morbidly obese, or who have pituitary conditions like acromegaly.  These men can genuinely attribute a lack of romantic success or sexual access to conditions that cause others to consider them unattractive, or intractable mental or emotional states that make socializing difficult to impossible.  Among these men you find discussions of the emotional sadness they feel, sometimes expressing anger at a society that excludes them on the basis of characteristics they cannot change, but you also find discussions about the ways these men can find a way around their issues.  Among this tier you find men who want to legalize prostitution because there are sex workers who specialize in long-term clients who have physical and social disabilities.  You seldom see this tier referring to women as a whole as stupid, depraved whores. They want solutions, not a scapegoat.

Tier 2:  Here you find the incels who are largely benign but are quite irritating to read if you’ve aged out of John Hughes films.  This tier consists of men who feel that their lack of social success is because women prefer assholes and therefore “nice guys” don’t stand a chance with most attractive women.  They brand pretty women who prefer brutish men “Stacy” and those men they prefer are referred to as “Chad.”  Stacys and Chads come up frequently among incels and Stacys can always be assumed to be pretty girls who won’t sleep with incels and Chads can always be assumed to be traditionally good looking men whom incels envy.  “Becky” is the term for women who are considered normal or middling in appearance, and most Tier 2 incels have no interest in women who are not supermodel beautiful, even if they themselves are only average in appearance (they call themselves “betas” as opposed to Chads who are “alphas”) and will often reject a Becky who shows any interest in them.  Tier 2 is seen as whiny and entitled and receives a lot of mockery online but is, outside of casual, self-serving misogyny, largely harmless. Tier 2 incels also have a good chance of growing out of their “nice guy” beliefs because a good portion simply have teen angst, or have changeable issues, like aging out of hormonal acne and developing a better sense of style.  Some of these guys also just grow up emotionally and develop the confidence to stop seeing themselves and others through such labels.

Tier 3:  This group consists of young men who have passed from casual but self-serving misogyny (self-serving misogyny describes when dislike of women only extends to how they think women affect them) into active belief that all women are terrible in every regard. They absolutely hate women, and they also hate men they perceive are more successful (if a former incel speaks of finally sleeping with a woman, depending on the community they will turn on him and consider him a Chad, ousting him from their social media).  They believe all women are duplicitous whores who will have degrading and depraved sex with any handsome man who walks by. They think women only turn to “nice guys” when they need a man to help them raise the bastards Chads abandoned.  They feel women are always waiting for sex with an alpha Chad, and even after marriage will cheat on them if given a chance with a handsome guy.  They resent that women who have “hit the wall,” meaning they have aged too much to be able to date Chads, only want them after their sexual prime has passed.  Occasionally you will find a Tier 3 who thinks he is an old school romantic who just wants a nice girl but if you press for details you end up with a scenario wherein a woman is treated like a pet – probably loved but confined entirely to the house, sleeping at the foot of the bed or sitting at their feet.

Tier 4: This tier share all the beliefs of Tier 3, but they have created an entire school of pseudo-science to prove how disgusting women are. They are convinced sexual promiscuity can be determined by the color and length of labia (“roasties” is a derogatory term for women they consider sexually immodest whom they believe have had so much sex it darkened and stretched out their labia minora to resemble slices of roast beef used in sandwiches).  They are so convinced of the innate depravity of women that they accuse women who own any dog larger than a chihuahua as having sex with the pet.  They have bizarre and unshakeable ideas about why women use tampons and what tampons actually do.  They believe women are incapable of making proper decisions about whom they date and choose to sleep with and such choices must be removed from them to prevent the collapse of society. Yet if attractive women express interest in these men, chances are they will be suspicious and verbally abuse them until they go away. Their world view is such that all women are lascivious whores and are only interested in them because they somehow need something non-sexual from them, or may want solely to humiliate them. Any attempt to correct their strange views about women is seen as suspicious and they are paranoid, seeing incel mockery in every social interaction.  Their paranoia is only trumped by their entitlement.

Tier 5:  Take all the virulent beliefs, pseudo-science that “proves” depravity in women, and senseless entitlement in Tier 4 men and turn it up to 11. Tier 5 consists of men who have gone way beyond hating women and men they believe are more successful than them.  Here you find (mostly) white men using hatred of women to justify their worst impulses, among them:

–Men who harbor racist views, substituting “Tyrone” for Chad as the man all white women want to have sex with, reinforcing ideas of female depravity because in their minds no decent white woman would ever have sex with a racial minority.  These men consider soiled forever a woman who has sex outside her race. Interestingly, some of these racist men justify marrying Asian women, especially those from Southeast Asian countries who travel to the West to improve their economic conditions. Some racists consider Asians “third world Aryans” and think women from “traditional” cultures are easier to control and less tainted by feminism.  There is often a low simmer of unease amongst incels who are not Caucasian and white incels who are racists.

— Authoritarian men who insist “white sharia” is needed to control women so that men can reduce the options available to them.  If a woman cannot get a job or control her fertility she is less likely to have sex with Chads or Tyrones. They will marry young and remain in their kitchens since they will have no other options. Among these men you find lots of exhortations to rescind the right to vote for women and to return to a time when women had no legal rights to property.  Some advocate harsh punishment for women who have sex outside of marriage. Physical violence against women is advocated if it keeps them in line.

–Pedophiles and all the other “philes” whose sexual preferences demand children, pre-teens or teenagers as preferred partners, who will use female choice in partner and career as a reason to lower ages of consent so that little girls can essentially be married off while in grade school and then trained to be the perfect woman by their husbands.  They talk a lot about the case of Eunice Winstead Johns, a nine-year-old girl whose marriage to a 22-year-old man in 1937  is touted as the ideal way to get a virgin.  The girl will come into the marriage as a subordinate, a child answering to a new paternal figure who also has sex with her. They insist it isn’t pedophilia even as they rationalize having sex with a fourth grader whose husband presented her with a big doll to play with just before their marriage.

–Necrophiles who justify having sex with the dead because dead women won’t say no to any sexual advances, divorce you, or leave you for Tyrone.

–Zoophiles who justify having sex with dogs all because women are so depraved they have no choice but to sleep with animals. Sometimes, as you will soon find, the animals don’t even need to be alive.

–Men who believe that their mothers and sisters should be legally and morally obliged to have sex with them if they cannot find romantic partners, and punished if they refuse.

–Men who advocate stalking and publicly abusing random women just to make them feel afraid because fearful women are easier to control and because it feeds a sadistic delight when they sense their targets experience fear.

–Men who speak of violent action against society and/or revere incels who have engaged in violence.

Tier 6: Combine all the horror show elements of Tiers 4 and 5 and factor in specific plans for revenge that may or may not be enacted.  Tier 6 contains some of the nastiest and most alarming content you can read online and in several cases some of this content turned out to be plans that turned into violent events. Tier 6, in a sense, is Tier 5 visualized and made real.  It can be hard to tell the difference between Tier 5 and Tier 6 and it is sort of amorphous, but it’s a distinction you understand once you’ve read this shit long enough.  Tier 5 are just acting out online, Tier 6 are making plans.  If Tier 5 speaks about drugging women to rape them, Tier 6 has obtained the drugs to do so.  If Tier 5 speaks of obtaining a gun, Tier 6 has the gun and plenty of ammunition. Tier 6 men may not have pulled the trigger but they’ve threatened it enough to have restraining orders issued against them.

There are those who say most of the Tier 5 and 6 incels are just trolls, and there is some truth to that belief.  But too many of these ideas have been shared under genuine identities, with pictures of the men available online, for that to hold water. (I have come to believe that many of the “share your picture so you can prove you’re too ugly to get a girl” threads that used to exist on Reddit got authorities more names to watch than any FBI or Interpol honeypot could ever have achieved).  These tiers are also progressive, which means if a Tier 2 doesn’t grow out of his angst, he can begin to ascend to higher tiers. This played out clearly in Elliot Rodger’s manifesto.  He began as a Tier 2, and toward the end was a solid Tier 6.

Along with my own tiers of incel-ery, alongside terms like “Becky,” “Stacy,” “Chad” and similar, you may encounter:

–Blue pill and red pill: This is a Matrix reference that alludes to the idea that people who take the blue pill when faced, as Neo was, with knowing the real nature of the world, willingly remain ignorant.  Among incels, those who take the red pill are suddenly aware of the innate wickedness and triviality of women everywhere and can no longer return to their happy days before they realized all women who don’t want to have sex with them are evil.

–Black pill: Those who have been “red pilled” regarding the awfulness of the world and realize it cannot be fixed are “black” pilled.  They are pessimistic, believe that their lack of female companionship is a form of biological determinism they cannot overcome and are, as a group, generally depressed to the point of nihilism.

–“Cuck” or “cuckdom”: Cuck is the shortened version of the word cuckold, which means a man who is routinely cheated on by his wife, whether or not he is aware of it.  The abbreviated form has since come to mean anything from essentially calling a person weak or neutered (the traditional GOP was called “cucks” repeatedly during the 2016 election due to their initial lack of support for Trump) or just someone easily taken advantage of.  The original meaning also still applies.

–“Normie”: Basically anyone who isn’t red-pilled (like me, Mr. OTC, Abraham Lincoln, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Queen Elizabeth I and II, all the members of Amorphis, Benjamin Franklin, Shaka Zulu, Chaka Khan, the entire 1976 Philadelphia Flyers starting lining up, and the super cool dude who repaired our dryer last year).

Many of these specific terms are somewhat fluid and are used by other online or hashtag subcultures and not exclusive to incels.

As I share some of my research, please be aware that incel forums on informational and social media sites are often banned, the electronic earth scorched and salted, so original sources may not be available.  However, I will have screenshots or archives if the original source is unavailable, or, in some cases, verification from the actual incel in question.

So with all that stated, let’s begin.


knajjd11, Tier 4-5, possibly 6 if you believe his online bragging

knajjd11 came to my attention three years ago for two reasons: he has some of the most fact-resistant and bizarre beliefs about feminine anatomy, and because he superficially reminds me of the kid I went to junior prom with.  My date was at best 5’4″, adorable and later handsome, now married to a pretty wife, with kids, and partner in one of the most lucrative and esteemed law firms in North America.  According to knajjd11, my old friend should never have achieved any business or social success because he’s not over six feet tall and muscle bound. knajjd11 is a nice-looking young man, though I will admit my advancing age may cause me to look at him with a maternal love of the cute. But he is cute. And all that cute is destroyed when you read his gross and bizarre opinions. (And he’s one who put his pictures online and I will not reproduce them here because I don’t want to, but they are very easy to find online if you fear he is masturbating outside your daughter’s window.)

knajjd11 is notable to me because of his very uninformed beliefs about female anatomy.  I’m going to link to screenshots of some of his more bizarre utterances:

Tampons are not something decent women use. They’re more of a tool to masturbate, honestly. It’s akin to putting a vibrator inside your vagina. It (sic) shaking inside as you walk… you may as well get fucked by a stranger.

When someone tries to inform him about the way tampons work – cylindrical cotton that expands to absorb period blood – to him it just proves his demented point even more:

Exactly.  They even expand and make your taint feel even more stuffed.  Even you cannot possibly deny this.

What exactly does knajjd11 think a taint is and why would any woman want to feel it stuffed when walking around.  If male, please help me with the following experiment: get about 20 cotton balls and shove them up your ass and walk around for a while and let me know if your taint feels stuffed and, if so, how you feel about it. For science.

Then we get this:

The clitoris is not outside the vagina.

It isn’t outside the vagina.  Do you know what the vagina encompasses?

Okay, I’ll cut this kid some slack, to a degree.  Every couple of years various forms of media become focused on the fact that the clitoris isn’t just the bulb at the top of the labia majora.  Clitoral tissue, when engorged, surrounds the vaginal canal but the clitoris is most definitely outside the vagina. I think he meant to say the clitoris is part of the vulva, and the vaginal opening is part of the vulva.  Or he really meant the clitoris is inside the vagina. Either way, he isn’t quite the expert he thinks he is, though this may explain why he thinks wearing a tampon can result in orgasm if it’s left to rattle around and vibrate against an inner clitoris.

I cannot currently find a screen shot of one of knajjd11’s greatest hits: his explanation of how having sex permanently darkens and stretches out the labia minora like they’re made of oxydizing silly putty because the communities featuring this madness are all banned.  I have to think someone somewhere has a screenshot and when I find it I will post it.  But know this:  this young man seemingly has no idea that labia majora and minora color and configuration are strictly genetic traits that have nothing to do with frequency of sexual activity. Virgins can have labia minora that extend past the majora and may not be a perfect virginal pink. (Found this one, an archive of knajjd11’s comments in another post.  There are better ones out there and I will rework this as soon as I find them.)

Okay, all of this is dumb.  But it is a part of a larger problem of ignorant men insisting that they are experts on female anatomy.  If these ignorant men are your boss or lawmakers, they can make your life very difficult or base policy decisions on a complete misunderstanding of the female reproductive system.  For example: a young woman worked for a state representative who thought tampons were masturbatory toys and that women could control their periods, stopping them at will.  We all kind of remember Rush Limbaugh saying that no woman takes birth control pills to control certain reproductive or health issues like PCOS or migraines, and said Sandra Fluke was a whore because she used birth control daily (DAILY?!?! because I guess he thought taking one pill a month would do for a nice virgin with ovulation issues or that women only take a pill if they plan to have sex immediately afterward).  But how about Vito Barbieri, an Idaho state senator whose ignorance was outright scary. Remote areas in Idaho are served by online physicians and women who would ordinarily not have access to emergency birth control could obtain it through such online consultations. But if you ban online medical care, what would virtuous pregnant women out in the boondocks do for routine prenatal care?  Barbieri had a great solution – pregnant women could swallow a camera that could be used to monitor their babies in the womb. A doctor had to patiently explain to him that the uterus and the stomach are very different organs and a camera swallowed cannot make it into the uterus and that there was no way to safety insert foreign matter into the womb during a pregnancy without risking killing the baby. If you live far away from a hospital you best hope men like Barbieri don’t influence the sort of prenatal care the women you care about receive.

So in a sense, knajjd11 isn’t alone with his misconceptions and even if we sympathize with him maybe we are okay in wanting him to pursue a non-STEM career.

knajjd11 is in a way a perfect example to use to show Andy and those who encounter mainly Tier 2 and Tier 3 incels online and in real life why so many people find incels revolting.  It’s not just a lack of sympathy – it’s full out disgust.  Andy would find it very difficult to remain sympathetic to any incel who looked at fatherhood through the following lens.  knajjd11 wants to know how it is fathers can rear daughters without feeling like cucks:

This is a genuine question. I’ve been thinking about this for some time. It’s the ultimate form of cuckoldry, honestly. I mean, you try to raise her properly, provide for her and share her burdens, emotional or financial, for so many years, and when she gets to her prime ages, she starts “exploring her body”. In other words, being a worthless slag being pumped and dumped by Chads, gagging on their erect members as they push her head further into their penis, gargling their cum with joy, screaming for them to fuck her brains out while they press her head to the ground with their foot, her jumping on their 12 inch dongs as she calls them “daddy”, catering to their every sexual whim to continue being with them, getting drunk in parties and gangbanging with total strangers… Being a worthless dishrag to be used and discarded, until the clock starts ticking and she gets with a beta cuckold to provide for her. This is the life of many “modern age” female.

My question is, how can so many of you normies be happy having a “western”, a “modern” daughter after so many years of raising and caring for her selflessly? How can you not get sick seeing her turn into a slut for public use? How can you sit still and say “this is fine” while she’s nothing more than a object for Chads to use and throw away like a cumrag? How can you accept her serial “monogamy”, watching her jump from cock to cock? It makes me sick to my stomach. Answers are welcomed.

I guess conservative Catholic fathers could, on some level, assure themselves that their daughters would never be subject to such thinking because they exercise enough paternal guidance to prevent them from engaging in gangbangs and being treated like a “cumrag” while still teens. But conservative fathers would also be faced with the reality that no matter how virginal and obedient their daughters were, incels like knajjd11 assign a value to them based on nothing more than the loathsome thoughts that rattle around in their sex-starved brains and may treat them more like the whore, less like The Madonna.

But let’s be blunt here: knajjd11 is listed in Tier 6 because he is a self-confessed rapist.  Specifically, he has confessed to having sex with a woman who got too drunk to give meaningful consent or even cognitively process that she was having sex.  His own words, and if you don’t like any of the sources I use here, Google the name and just read all the garbage knajjd11 spread all over the Internet:

I haven’t overpowered anyone and it wasn’t rape, either, unless you’re the “omg i drank so much by my own volution (sic) so it was rape!!” sjw types.

When pressed for explanation it gets worse:

Have I forced someone to drink?  Have I spiked someone’s drink? No. Men are predators by nature and its, quite frankly, mostly your fault if you get piss drunk and pass out.

Presumably it’s your fault too if knajjd11 also comes across you while you’re having a seizure, possibly drowning, or sprawled on the pavement after getting hit by a car or in any other situation a strict libertarian could lay the blame on you for.  Surely you knew you had a seizure disorder when you left the house, that there was a chance you could drown if you got in water, and that cars often jump curbs and plow into pedestrians, especially in Toronto.  You leave the house, you’ve made a decision that could end poorly for you and an incel might have sex with you while you are unconscious. (And more in that despicable vein when we get to our next incel.)

But don’t worry, no harm done because she wasn’t a virgin and she won’t remember any of it:

You are an SJW and a whitenight. I have done nothing wrong because it was not a virgin, the person definitely doesn’t know about it, and it was like 3 thrusts. No harm done whatsoever.

And let’s all speculate as to why knajjd11 refers to his victim as “it” and “the person.”  Depersonalization is common when perpetrators recite the facts of the crimes they commit, using verbiage that strips their victim of personal and social identity.  This happens when perps feel conflict about the crimes they commit, meaning knajjd11 may not be as firm in his belief that he did nothing wrong as he wants us to believe.

The person behind these words is a kid, relatively speaking.  I’m old enough to be his mother.  He has an almost angelic face but insists his short height is responsible for his lack of sexual success.  At first glance, he seems like he would be such a nice young man. Is he this demented because the Internet makes it so easy for bad ideas to flourish?  Was he always going to be this unsound?


Canino1997 (his real name is easily found online but I feel better not including it, even though he has linked his real name and photos to his user names), Tier 4 to 5

Canino1997 was a mod on a Discord channel devoted to incels called IncelAbode. He was also a mod on the now banned subreddit, r/incelheaven.  His user name on Reddit was “SaintElliot.” Even among some of the rougher message boards Canino1997 stood out as so depraved that he bore special discussion.  Canino1997 is notable for being a zoophile, meaning he likes the idea of having sex with animals (dogs, specifically in his case), also known as bestiality.  But he took it to lengths that gave pause to even the most jaded observers of human behavior.

Canino1997 once decided it was a good idea to share an instructional manual on how young, sexually frustrated incels could have sex with dogs. Across various sites online Canino1997 verified that he is indeed the author.  But wait, it gets worse! If you actually clicked that link and read the first sentence, you saw the following:

I was just as desperate out of inceldom. Heck, I even considered having sex with a dog cadaver that died outside my window but sadly the janitor threw it away before I could go out and get it at night.

Seriously, this young man, who in 2019 is only 21 or 22, was in 2016 so convinced of his incel status for the rest of his life that he considered having sex with a dead animal and was only denied because sanitation workers were on the ball.  And the rest of it, if you read it, was a primer on how to violate animals for human sexual pleasure.

Canino1997 is deeply disturbing in almost every regard.  He insists he only considers necro-zoophilia because women and society in general are so awful that he has no choice but to have sex with dead animals and write vaguely worded diatribes about how he’s going to run amok.  He doesn’t want to run amok, mind you – we’ve evidently left him no choice. From the now-banned r/incelpurgatory, he justifies the violent rampage he wants to engage in:

I never wanted for stuff to go this far or for shit to get out of hand this badly. I had no say in the matter. My hand was forced. I don’t want to do this and I will take no joy in it. Even if what I will do is justified and it is beyond a doubt. I will take no pleasure in it. I never asked for any of this. I had over 4 years to reflect. I came to the conclusion that this is the right thing to do. Whatever happens in the coming days, weeks or months. The females and the system are to blame not only for my incel situation but for other things as well. My situation and the fact that I will be forced to do what I will do.

Canino1997 believes Elliot Rodger’s rampage was justified.  From the now banned r/incel:

Elliot did nothing wrong or evil. He did something to end his suffering and delivered justice in the process. His heart was at the right place. He made them pay for the evil that was inflicted on him. The females made it come to that. They are the truly evil ones. The blood of the victims is on the hands of females that didn’t sleep with him. Elliot gave a just reaction to his situation.

Why would any woman want to risk a date with this kid? If a woman chooses not to have sex with him, he could kill other women and place the blame on her.

Canino1997, like most incels, is deeply self-loathing, but Canino takes it further than most. Even considering how much he hates himself, it’s hard to understand how a young man who is dark skinned and of mixed-race could ever praise Hitler, again from the now-banned r/incel:

If Hitler won the rise of feminism would have been delayed at least 40 years. We would have avoided a big part of the horrors that came with the sexual revolution. The world would have been a way better place for incels if Hitler won.

I guess to him this makes sense.  This mixed-race young man would be fine living in the Fourth Reich with all the potential dangers such a political system implies for someone like him (both in terms of skin color and his clear mental instability) if it meant women took it on the chin and had to have sex with him or else.

And in case you need extra special proof that SaintElliot is Canino1997 and they both contemplated having sex with a dead dog and with dogs in general enough to write a “how-to-guide,” here he shows up to defend his good name, verifying all this information, because in his world view he makes perfect sense.  In fact, Kiwi Farms has an excellent thread about Canino1997, wherein he frequently shares his theories and tries to explain why his belief system is not unsound.

Canino1997 is also a good example of the extraordinary entitlement of some incels, who literally think the government owes men a sexual partner.  Canino1997 said the following:

Why should I work and contribute to a society that didn’t even provide me with 1 female. I don’t owe anybody shit.

Think this through with me. If he doesn’t owe anybody shit, why does the government owe him “1 female.”  Why does that female owe him shit, let alone sex?  Doesn’t matter and this is one of the reasons incels are seen as ridiculous, entitled crybabies. They hate the notion of entitlements for the poor, despise most forms of taxation and limits on their personal freedom. But that same government they want to cease welfare payments, tax collection, and prohibitions against sex with children should intrude into the lives of others to the extent that they create a program wherein men like Canino1997 are given a woman, who has no choice in the matter.

But it may not need to come to that if Canino1997 is able to convince lawmakers to permit him to sexually maul any unconscious woman he comes across or to have sex with cadavers. Christ, I wish I was kidding.  I really do.

Under his SaintElliot name on Reddit, he suggested the following as a social incentive to encourage incels to save the lives of all the women they evidently stumble across nearly dead and in need of medical care:

Incels that find wounded/unconscious females should be allowed to sleep with them.  This way the incel would get his salvation [in this context he means reward] for saving a life.  Pussy is a sexual resource women provide.  Incels should be allowed to sleep with wounded/unconscious females after they help them.  As a finders fee for finding and helping them.  For example, a female does fall off a cliff and begins to bleed out.  An incel finds her and helps her stop the bleeding.  The incel should be allowed to sleep with her as a finders fee since without him she would be dead.

All kinds of questions arise.  One of them should not be if Canino1997 would rescue a dying woman now – no, he would not because he says he has no incentive.  He’d let her die.  But when exactly does he get to have sex with the injured woman? I mean, if he saves that woman who fell off the cliff and then sexes her up while they’re waiting for the ambulance, he may well kill her.  Would that be murder? What if she loses a leg or is vomiting all over herself?  Would he be forced to wait until EMTs can clean her up so she’s in a more fuckable state or does that matter.  What if she’s married?  What if his wife  (yeah, I know, but bear with me) is hit by a car one day and can only get help if some dude like Canino1997 gets to rape her because he dragged her out of the road?  What if she’s visibly pregnant?  Left in a coma?  Perhaps there is a rain check program he can implement once she’s recovered.

Here’s a slightly less barbaric yet still socially disgusting approach to getting incels laid: violating the dead.  But hey, don’t get too upset because at least the incel in question will have to perform another civic duty:

Sex is a female resource.  Organs are a human resource. I came up with a system that would exchange these sources in a way everybody would benefit. The pussy of details can be used even 2 days after death.  Their sexual resources get wasted with the current system and people often die because there aren’t enough organ donors. Incels that are organ donors should be allowed to have sex with recently deceased females… If this proposal came true it would be killing two birds with one stone.

Why do I sense a rise in murder of young, attractive women by incel organ donors?  Why do I suspect very few men, even the most desperate of incels, would want to have sex with a woman so injured she could bleed out and die without immediate help, or with her after she does bleed out and is on a morgue slab?

I’m going to end this talk about Canino1997 with a quick discussion about his tulpa because I need something a bit light-hearted at the moment.  As those who study Theosophy already know, a tulpa is a physical entity brought into existence through intense spiritual concentration. Canino1997 was so lonely he wanted a tulpa.  I am unsure if this tulpa was meant to be a friend or a sex partner but the fact remains that he attempted to create one.  He failed.  He was unable to do it because he lacked the imagination.

It’s right about here that I would feel some sympathy for him if I didn’t know he is okay with rape, having sex with living and dead animals, pedophilia, violating the injured, violating the dead, and genocide as long as it gets him sex. This is awful and gross and I consider it a small mercy that he claims he has kept all his ideas in the realm of thought and not deed. Still, it’s hard to muster much sympathy for him.

Let’s move on to the man who picked one of the best user names to represent him online.


Grotesque, Tier 5 and 6

Grotesque is the kind of incel who outright scares people.  I’m pretty level-headed and have dwelt in uneasy places online long enough that I can see that Grotesque plays up his nastiness and in real life likely isn’t particularly menacing, but you never know.  Elliot Rodger was an attractive, relatively polite, well-dressed young man who also ended up shooting and stabbing people to death.  If I knew Grotesque in real life I would give him wide berth because Grotesque has a particular focus in his incel-ery and misogyny.  He very much likes the idea of throwing acid in women’s faces.

More common in the Middle East and India, acid attacks are almost always waged against women, and specifically against women the male perpetrator either feels spurned by or in some manner desires and cannot have.  They also happen as a form of punishment when a female “dishonors” her family. Grotesque wants to both scar women for life with this act of violence and he often seems sexually aroused by women who bear the scars of this violence. Grotesque is not a young man – he appears physically and in terms of the way he writes to be in his late 30s, early 40s.  Grotesque’s real name is not known but he has linked images of the same man to various user names across the Internet and intrepid online sleuths have determined where he lives (evidently somewhere in New York).

Grotesque claims being treated poorly in job situations is why he is so violently unhinged now, and that he lives reasonably well on government payments. Plenty of free time has enabled him to share across a number of forums his fantasies and some of the repercussions he has received for antisocial behaviors. Over the course of more than a year, Grotesque has enjoyed sparring with some of the commenters on Kiwi Farms in the thread devoted to his appalling online activities. The online detectives on Kiwi Farms have pretty good evidence that Grotesque is also posting in various places as “Grotesquesubhuman, ” “Eugene Drizzledick” and “Unattractive Failure.”  He seems to need to change his user names when he crosses even the very loose lines on incel and red pill forums and gets banned.

Grotesque’s fetish for throwing acid in women’s faces is well documented.  If it’s a trolling attempt, it’s a long, excessively detailed one.  He even uses as avatars faces of women scarred for life in acid attacks.  He especially likes the image of a young glamor model in the UK, Katie Piper, whose ex-boyfriend tossed acid in her face as retribution for breaking up with him.

Grotesque is also notable for being one of the few incels who admits that his antisocial behaviors caused him legal trouble.  He developed a sexual fixation on his therapist and delighted in upsetting her.  He considers his therapist (whose name and Facebook he links to and even though it is now deleted I am not using her real name), Jane Doe, his “oneitis.”  This is another incel linguistic mashup that incorporates the idea of having “one” true love as being a disease. Jane Doe is Grotesque’s one true love and he obsesses over her long after she jettisoned him from her practice.  Why would a trained mental health professional decide to get rid of a difficult patient?  Well, he said this to her, among other things (oh, and I will be using links to Kiwi Farms and various archives of the pages because has, you guessed it, ceased to exist):

I told my fat cunt counselor that I hoped her mother died due to her cancer, crying her last moments about her failure daughter never having kids and embarrassing her for decades.

He also said about her, some of which was clearly told to her:

No, I never stalked her.

She just knows about my acid facing desires, and that I wanted to rape her when I was a virgin.

And I don’t even want to acid face her now because she gained a ton of weight and her ass is gigantic now, along with guaranteeing herself that she’ll die alone, which is hilarious.

This is how he speaks to the woman he believes is his true love.  Just remember that.  What were the repercussions of this sort of behavior?  Did she tolerate his abuse in a way reminiscent of Tony Soprano’s long suffering therapist?

She sent me a CEASE AND DESIST letter that I ignored and she had me arrested.

And then she got fired.

He links to her Facebook but it is now deleted so we can’t tell if the link was to some information that would tell us whether or she did get fired.  Still, good for Jane Doe, getting this man out of her professional life.  Her career seems to have survived her brush with this Grotesque. Should she ever find this thread, I hope she contacts me so I can send her a bouquet of roses and a taser.  Especially since this is Grotesque’s response.  First, he laments not getting to see her terrified:

I didn’t get to see her again after this, unfortunately.

She’s ‘deathly terrified’ of me.


How did she get him arrested?

I e-mailed her after she told me not to.

That’s enough to get one arrested in the US.

Everything’s been dropped twice now, but I have to go through lots of bullshit to get there.

Still worth it though since I fucked up her career.

Well, that’s enough to get one arrested in the US if you continue to send a person emails after they apply for and receive a restraining order against you.  If it were possible to get someone arrested just for sending you nasty emails, incel-ery would no longer be a problem. Tier 3 and up would all be in jail.

But wait, Grotesque is sad because he seems to have no real idea why she went through the legal process to get a restraining order and then get him arrested when he violated it:

I never threatened her, nor said anything unkind to her.

It’s been over a year and I still have no idea why she’s doing this.

This conversation (you can view the whole thing here, and you probably should because you need to see that Grotesque was being cheered on as he told this story, cheered on by either trolls or men just like him) was posted in December, 2017, which means his arrest happened at the latest in December of 2016.  And he’s still talking about it with glee and confusion since he doesn’t understand why she felt it necessary to remove him from her life.

There’s a perniciously nasty meme among Tier 5 wherein the ultimate form of cuckdom is to raise a daughter because you put all that money and time into raising a healthy, attractive daughter only to have her have sex under your nose with every Chad she can find.  I discussed this notion with knajjd11 above.  Grotesque has a solution for fathers who feel like they are being cucked by their daughters:

You can’t stop your daughter from fucking around.  Unless you run Fritzl game.

Josef Fritzl kidnapped his daughter, imprisoned her in a basement and repeatedly raped her over the span of 24 years.  She bore seven of his children, three whom were forced to live in the basement with her, three whom Fritzl and his wife raised, and one who died. Yes you can prevent your daughter from selecting her own sex partners by imprisoning and raping her continually yourself.

Here’s some other things Grotesque has said, to the delight of his fellow “incels”:

My optimal scenario is winning the heart of a female, then brutally raping her and ruining her reproductive organs, then acid facing her so she’ll be completely useless to society, then harass her into suicide.

I put incel in quotes above because Grotesque admits he has had a “fuck buddy,” a woman with whom he has a no-strings attached sexual relationship but she eventually dumps him for someone better.  No fear, his “oneitis” therapist provides him with appalling fantasy fodder:

I’m 36, 2/10, and recently had sex.

Unfortunately the chubby cunt I was fucking openly left me for 4/10 Chad.  I suppose he’s not Chad, that’s like Jahad.

Anyway, I don’t care, and I want to fuck more ugly whores. Including my counselor who will feel my incel pain in her stinky vagoo.

Also, I am not the individual who went Mr. Elliot Rodger.

Well thank god he cleared that up.  Would hate to think this dude is violent until he actually follows through on acid facing a woman, as he so charmingly puts it.  I am forcing myself to end here but there is so much more horribleness attached to this one man, and there is so much horribleness attached to all the men who respond to him.

Please, for the love of god,  take note: Grotesque has access to sex but he posts on incel boards and is welcomed by the men on those boards.  This should be a sign for what incel-ery is about once you leave the weird pseudoscience/deliberate ignorance in Tier 4.  This advocacy is no longer about being an angst filled young man with a gawky build, acne and a sense that no woman will ever want him because there are so many Chads who overshadow him.  This is about fantasies of violence, justifications for extraordinary cruelty, and glee at inspiring terror in women.  His fantasy is not about finding a woman with a heart of gold who will love him faithfully until he dies.  His fantasy is about brutal rape, facial disfigurement, bullying a woman he harmed into suicide.  And this is said by a man who has access to sexual relationships.  There is no sympathy for this man, and all the young men we should care about, who are navigating a new world with sexual landscapes their fathers don’t understand, are lumped into the same category that defines this depraved man.  The same category that houses a self-confessed rapist and an erstwhile zoophile.

This sort of extremity is not hard to find.  One does not have to spend much time to find this content, even after it has been banned.  This is why “incels” are derided and subjected to the sort of mockery we show to those we fear yet whose rhetoric is so ridiculous we cannot believe anyone follows it.  We’ve moved past the mockery of the kids who think tampons are masturbatory devices and the whining of young men who are convinced all women want to have sex with the quarterback. This is why intelligent people do not want to engage with incels on any level.  This is all under the label “incel” and it’s horrible and it’s why we laugh. We laugh because sometimes the only alternative is to cry and it feels better to save tears for those who fall victim to incels who are inspired by the violent and disturbing things other incels say and do.

And honestly our mockery is better than anger, or at least it is for the incels. There’s no way Andy Nowicki knew details of what I produced in this very long and terribly gross article.  I don’t think he wallows in the mire of the Internet the way I do.  He’s a decent man trying to find his conservative Catholic bearings in the world and sees many incels through the eyes of a man who is himself appalled at certain elements of the modern world.  But those of us who looked closely at the micro of incel-ery knew why we mock and this is why I, as a woman with plenty of sympathy for the devil, have none for Tier 3 and up.  And if you do, by all means, share your opinion in the comments.  Just don’t post anything that could be problematic for my site host and don’t be an asshole.

Post Script

I am including links to other incel behaviors, threats and odd statements sorted out by the incel tier they best represent, though this is definitely an inexact process. I am sharing these links and images because I do not want to have to deal with the complaint that I am cherry-picking the worst of the worst for the bulk of the article.  Assume about half of these individuals are trolling and you still walk away knowing there’s someone out there who wants to rape your cat because girls are mean and kill your mom if she doesn’t make eye contact with him the right way.  Please forgive any flippant tone I may adopt here, but I think right now if I have to choose between anger and weary snark, the latter seems the better choice.  Also, I have hundreds of such links to share and I will likely add to this section until I lose interest.

I also want to note that I specifically made the choice not to mention by name some of the more notorious members of incel communities because they are worse than Beetlejuice.  You don’t even have to say their names three times before they’ve shown up and wrecked your comment section.  Even so, here is a link to lolcow.farms, with a dossier on some of the more notable incels in the specific communities tracked at the time the thread was created.  I have not vetted it for accuracy.

(And I tip my hat to Kiwi Farms and Lolcow Farm for documenting this in their own ways.  People had told me Kiwi Farms was a right wing suicide factory but from what I can see they pretty much mock anyone who is mockable or reprehensible regardless of any sort of political or social affiliation – I was most appreciative of their work running some really vile zoosadists to ground and DO NOT READ THOSE THREADS.  Don’t even search for them. But back to incels: I had so many bookmarks but had not archived them because I guess I thought the world was used to this sort of thing and didn’t see coming the continual bans of communities that host ideas like this.  Without the archive of screen shots, direct uploads and saves, so much of this would have been lost to the ether due to community deletions. Oh, and this online censorship mostly ensures these dudes meet in places normies like us don’t frequent.  I can’t even imagine what they’re talking about on sites accessible solely through TOR. Sunlight is and always will be the best disinfectant, so let the incels post their perspectives openly and without deletion and that way we can keep an eye on them and reduce at least some of the surprise when a few in their ranks run amok.)

Tier One

Haven’t found any yet, but it bears mentioning they aren’t likely to post in the sorts of communities I’ve been researching.


Tier Two

Incel desperation leading to more humiliation

Underage “aspie” sneaks into a bar in a last ditch attempt to lose virginity before deployment, makes an ass of himself


Incels in literature and pop culture

Snape was an incel

Hunchback of Notre Dame was totally an incel story

Squidward is an incel


Melodrama Jesus Christ!

I missed a text and lost out on a date, somehow feminism is to blame, gonna kill myself

Handling rejection well is for cucks, throw a goddamn tantrum!


Run, Forrest, run!

Dude lands a date, fears for life, wonders if he should cancel (1)

Dude stops listening to incel crab bucketing, has successful first date (2)

Dude stops listening to incel crab bucketing, has successful second date (3)

Heartbreakingly earnest post from a young man who sees that he hasn’t tried to find companionship and wants advice on how to change his fate (post is now gone and I really hope he got some good tips)


Sad boy statements

I am ugly, it is why no one likes me, not my personality, please don’t discount my experiences.

I knew in junior high I would always be too short and ugly.

Christmas music makes me cry because I will never have a family

I didn’t hit some milestones in junior high so life is over at age 27

I was nice to a pretty girl and now I hate myself for being a beta male

The only salvation is to become a Chad but we can’t so we’re doomed

Girls treat incels like puppies or kittens but will stomp your balls flat if you come onto them

Girl blocked me on OKCupid and now I’ve lost all hope

All women shy away from my horrible ugliness so I can never ask one on a date or even speak to them

A lot of sadness from one man who deliberately tortures himself by chronically contemplating the life he wants but says he cannot have

Developing alcoholism has helped my incel-ery so much.


Sooo close to self-awareness

Are you really an incel if you turn down sex from an ugly girl


Store clerks wrecking incel shit

Feel humiliated because I bought something I didn’t want because I couldn’t afford something better but a female clerk was there and now I will be an incel forever

Cashier is clearly mocking incel with her polite fatness



Dude with giant penis is sad he cannot use it, not even in porn


Tier Three

Bitterness with a side of incest

Only female moans he will hear were from his mom fucking Chad (mom sounds gross too)


If she’s wearing lipstick she’s a congenital liar hiding a Medusa head

Women are lucky because they can hide how ugly they are with makeup

Women who use makeup are degenerate


Lol, wut?

Female CEOs and giving birth prove women have no dignity

Trump means women incels hate are fucked

Let’s expose female entitlement by calling women ugly to their faces!

Discusses with disgust “dark triad” traits in women while wondering if he can himself become a sociopath so he can manipulate others.

It is hypocrisy to feel bad for a Chad who gets molested but have no pity for incels who never get laid.

Let’s all kill ourselves to spite the normies, that’ll show them!


The only thing worse than an incel is another incel

One incel is angry that another incel has opinions on incel-ery

The mods of incel communities don’t want to kill the world and therefore are SJWs


Points of philosophy

Women shouldn’t have rights if means I can’t get laid

Sluts are not the incel problem!  The incel problem is sluts who sleep above their station!  If ugly sluts stayed in their lane, incel-ery would cease.

Women are wicked and use beta males and ugly men for support while having sex with Chad.

Refusing to sleep with someone because you find them unattractive is reverse rape

Women are sooo shallow compared to the intellectual juggernaut that is the incel movement.

Women only love those who show them indifference

Trump is going to make things worse for incels because SJWs will be empowered by his awfulness

Arguments about whether or not Trump the Chad is a good thing for the Incel Nation

Intricacies of political points of view often leave out lesser males/worker bees and it’s baffling that other lesser males don’t see this.

Don’t ever take advice on women from women because women are too dumb to know what women think

In order to break the female monopoly on sex, incels must never pay for a prostitute.

Depriving men of sex is a criminal act.


Super Sad Boy Statements

Tinder date failed and Polish prostitute couldn’t understand me, I want to die

So sad he can no longer masturbate to porn with pretty women in it – he can only get it up for ugly women

Even if we get a woman we have to remember Chads used her up and now all she does is dream of Chad because we suck in bed

Your grandmother thinks you are subhuman and fantasizes about Chad

Even if you get a girl your life will be horrible as you try to keep her from fucking Chad

Chads are trained from childhood to torment incels

Read all of this, I dare you

Betas can never be Chads and should castrate themselves


These are totally not trivial reasons to hate women

Gender equality is a joke because men can’t fart in public

Dude hates women because he gave himself tinnitus listening to loud rap in public in the hope it would make a girl have sex with him


Where all the sex robots at

Women are dumb and also unwilling to fuck me so I need AI and presumably a moist sponge to get off

The prospect of having an AI girlfriend is the only reason I haven’t killed myself yet


Yeah, that happened…

Bike cucked by a demon whore

And that professor’s name?  Albert Einstein!

Dude skates around fat girls and evidently pwns them, pwns them good

Cucked by his Reddit post history

Called a group of women whores to their faces and totally got in the last, best word.

Normies were wrong, going outside is not worth it even if you get LSD at the end


Tier Four

Generic examples of why women may not enjoy incel company

Since only male orgasm is necessary for reproduction, no one should bother pleasuring a woman in bed

Even if I managed to find a woman willing to tolerate me for more than five minutes, I would probably have to beat her to keep her in line.


Points of Philosophy

A just society would make sure every citizen has sex because it is an innate need, like food and shelter

Female sexual freedom feeds into masculine desire to humiliate whores, so keep feeling empowered, whores! (very similar to rad fem arguments against porn, go figure)

The sexual revolution is why men with small dicks cannot get sex.


“That Happened”

HR dude uses fake pic to catfish hot women to send him resumes with sexy pics

Deliberately gave poor scores to female students in peer reviews and felt triumph


Unwarranted Self-Importance

Silence on the part of normies and Chads mean they can’t counter your argument


Weird Science/Homosexuality

There are no gay Chads because incel algebra proves it.

Lesbians exist only to cuck incels.

How to win life as a bitter incel who spits in the face of all woman and donates sperm in order to have kids (who will probably be raised by lesbians who will turn the kid into a tranny)

Dude wants to become gay but can’t so is considering forcing it by sexual reassignment surgery


Weird Science/Men/Incels

All incel killers look alike, must be a phenotype

There is an “incel face” and he knows because he’s on

Men are discarded due to one bad feature while Stacys march around with weird noses and chins and get all the sex ever

Feminism encourages anti-male eugenics

More arguments that incels have a specific physical appearance


Weird Science/Women

Women don’t have sex for pleasure since women can only orgasm via clitoral stimulation so women slut around for social reasons.

Valerie Solanas, call your office (seriously, dude essentially rewrote SCUM Manifesto but this time XX organisms are incomplete and boring)

Since everyone hates brunettes, they have to be extra degenerate whores to attract Chad

Vaginas absorb male essence so you’re pretty much gay if you don’t have sex with virgins

If you sew up a vagina, years worth of pee will back up because ladies have a cloaca like birds


Weird Science/Women: Let’s Talk About Labia

“Innie” labia majora mean a woman has had less sex

Sex with Chad stretches out the labia and normies just don’t understand how skin works

Too much sex twists and stretches labia into flaps and discolors them, too (they are obsessed with perfect, pink, innie labia majora and non-existent labia minora, yet denounce the porn that convinced them this is the only attractive form a vulva can take)


What a Stacy wants

Stacy only wants a big, thick… neck

Stacy doesn’t know what she wants, her vagina just leads and she follows

Stacy wants you to be violent and cruel to her – that’s just genetics

Stacy definitely does not want personality in a man (and she lacks one herself)

Stacy craves 7.5 inch or larger wrists (I shit you not, this is real, he thinks he is being cucked by his thin wrists, like women haven’t visually wallowed in the vascular hands and thin wrists of rock guitarists for decades, why are they like this, what the hell?)

Stacy wants short, muscular dudes.


Tier Five

All rape threats, all the time

Incel gets busted asking how it is rapists get caught.

I’ll only kidnap and rape as a last resort, I promise

But I was only kidding about all that kidnapping and rape I recommend others do, I promise

I’m not an incel but only cucks refuse to rape

Women who never experience rejection should be gang-raped to death

You disagree with me online?  You should be raped until you drown in semen.

I’m insecure about myself, women are insecure about rape, you do the math

Women are irrationally afraid of rape and it’s fun to make them afraid because of it

Who cares if women are raped, they have it coming, especially if the perps are non-white

Women who wear yoga pants in public deserve to be raped.

Women are sex toys and if they say no you should brutalize and rape them.

If we rape women enough they will fall in love with us, science proves it!

I want to rape and kill every women who posts on blue pill.

Men should be able to rape women in prisons as a form of criminal deterrence.


Bestiality/Treating women like animals

Original of Canino1997’s dog sex instructions

Women are subhuman animals so they should be treated like animals, down to how they are treated sexually, fed, cleaned and disciplined


Gross dudes are gross

Spread your ejaculate all over things women touch

Let’s spray the normies with Liquid Ass

Spit in her purse and put her phone in the trash


Gun Paranoia

Stacy and Chad will use you as a human shield so prepare, part 1

Stacy and Chad will use you as a human shield so prepare, part 2


Mass Murderer Worship

Anders Behring Breivik must have had an erection shooting normie teens

Nikolas Cruz is a hero for killing Stacys and Chads on Valentine’s Day

Our boy Grotesque longs for another Marc Lepine

Marc Lepine was a hero with bonus race hate!

Marc Lepine was better than Eliott Rodger because he only targeted women.

Marc Lepine is a saint for stabbing to death 14 women

Sympathizes with Elliot Rodger because Rodger’s sister wasn’t that pretty and it had to have sucked listening to her have sex


Normies ruin everything

You only see rape threads attributed to incels on normie sites

Normies didn’t get my threats cloaked as a joke so now I may get expelled

Let’s kill the normies and all the Chads, but we probably can’t because they way outnumber us

Why won’t normie women nod like fembots when I tell them they are whores?

Normies don’t like incel plan to crash a plane full of people, clearly the normies are insensitive to incel plight.

Do we or do we not kill all the normies.


Oh, shit, there may be consequences for all these things I do!

Under a user name I menaced a woman who made me mad.  Could I get arrested?

I got stressed and told my sister I was planning a murder rampage and now she’s afraid of me, how do I fix this

My only friend is female but I told her all women including her should be raped and murdered and now she hates me.

Consequences subsection: The Virgin Surgeon Saga

Dude steals topless photos of buddy’s girlfriend and posts them online, remarks on her rapeable bone structure

New portmanteau: Normcuck! Also more stolen boob pics

Girl in photos confronts photo thief incel, names names, calls police, boyfriend is gonna beat his ass

Virgin surgeon fears for his life, still insults girl


One incel’s unsettling relationship with his sister

Asked sister for sex but she declined and offered to get him a prostitute but he thinks she’d have to have sex with him if they were married (!!) Continued below…

My sister is the only woman I’d lose my virginity to, she’s beautiful and hasn’t yet tired of trying to reform me.

I wish I could marry my sister, maybe there can be a law permitting it if I just get a vasectomy first.

Jesus this is sad, just more of the same dude craving his sister because she’s the only person he loves.

He attempts suicide, she calls for help, he hates her forever for betraying him.

I may have tried to commit suicide but she lied to police about me and got me help and is now just a cunt to me.


Racist crap

Would you date a “colored girl” plus bonus internal incel racism

David Duke is pro-incel, evidently (almost filed this under “lol wut” because Duke is totally a chad)

Wants non-white women to be gang raped

I think this dude is upset that a man from India is seen as an alpha.


Rare, genuine post about a desire to change and cease harming others due to incel status

Am I salvageable?


Store clerks wrecking incel shit

The pretty cashier at RiteAid’s smile wasn’t as wide as I wanted so I hope she gets tortured and raped.


Talkin’ ’bout a revolution

Vague language about “taking action” that references white genocide, Arab rape and “femoid” sexual economics

It’s ethical to kill entire swathes of society if you are an incel (and this is totally not encouraging murder, got it!)


Talkin’ ’bout controlling women/Slavery is good, too

Find a pretty, naive girl and get her addicted to heroin so you can basically own her for life

Sade, Marx and Agamben all agree – strip all unmarried women of all legal status and put them in brothels

How much would you pay for a North African virgin

Women should be branded when married so they know they are subordinate and must obey (if caught cheating she must have sex with five sex-starved incels as punishment)

Women should be kept in chastity belts by their male “owners”


Vengeance against women and normies !

People don’t like me so I have no choice but to go on a murder rampage

Women are demons who need to be destroyed

Your girlfriend admits she cheated and broke up with you?  Kill her!

Take up your swords, incels, and kill all the cunts, for extermination is our mercy to them

Even if I managed to find a woman it would end in a violent murder-suicide

I want to smash a girl’s face into a wall

This is a totally sane man’s views on womankind

Let’s disfigure the good-looking people so they know how it feels to be an incel

We can’t kill all the women because who will we rape if we do?

If a roastie doesn’t respond well, tacitly threaten her with murder.

Hit your girl if she denies you sex because she can only decline if she’s sick

Jaws are made for breaking

If women moan during sex, it’s because they want to alert nearby males to fight each other to have sex with her, and you should totally kill her for it

This is just a stream-of-whargarbl recitation of violence and madness


Tier Six (very few, thank heavens)


Groped cousin’s breasts while she was sleeping (he claims he was a kid when he did it but has zero regret so, yeah…)


Stalking behaviors

This guy took pleasure in terrifying a 14 year old girl.

Stalked a woman running in the park, masturbated over memory of how scared she was

35 thoughts on “No Sympathy for the Incel

  1. Hi, Anita.

    I’d like to comment on some more of this but you do realize that what you’re doing here is just mere cherry-picking? For example, why don’t you pay attention to the fact that most men on these boards don’t say the things you mention here? Why don’t you visit some sites with incels that don’t have such aggressive ideologies and connect them to a the term? For example,

    With what you’re doing now I think you can understand why somebody would like for it to be more killers around? If 99 percent of people are as braindead as you are, it’s good that they die. And I’m speaking as a former incel.

    Of course many of these men calling themselves incel are wrong and morons, but they didn’t dominate the term once. And, yes, their problems aren’t caused by looks but by feminism.

    Would you mind reading


    1. Stop blaming women
      for males SATANIC BEHAVIOR!!!!
      before feminism existed stinking filthy diabolical CHAUVINISM EXISTED!!!!
      man UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      wimpy spineless, blame shifting woman hating demon posssed lunatics are NOT created by women or feminism!!
      Tired of THE deflection, excuse making, queer, limp wimp, spineless little boys who slap and yank their penises around angrily while fantasizing about intercourse with a CORPSE!!!! OR WITH A NON CONSENSUAL WOMAN!!!! They are NOT NORMAL!
      it is SATAN!! IT IS DEMONS THAT influence males to this behavior and hatred for women.

      1. T, your comments are… strong and filled with lots of anger but you also just read a kid justify raping dead dogs and injured and dead women because evidently that’s better option for him than a lot of therapy. Thanks for commenting and I wish you well.

  2. Also, you mention some racism. What is wrong with racism? Do you think all races are the same?

    And the worst racists of all are liberals. They attack these incels simply because most are white. Believe me, there’s plenty to attack with what many of these calling themselves incel believe today, but they would not be attack if they weren’t white. This also pertains to violence you’re trying to call out here. Who do you think supports the bloodiest murders of all whites, even smallest babies? Who supports their burnings, decapitations with a machete, taking a shit in their mouths and various other acts? Leftist liberals do.

  3. Also, it’s a gross lie that everything every incel misses is just sex. I for one used to have some fwb’s and was still longing for a loving relationship. But since a modern Western woman can no longer provide such a relationship rape is acceptable. Especially since liberals don’t mind white women being raped by niggers and spics. To a liberal, that is not rape. A white person asking a woman for a coffee is rape. A black decapitating a child isn’t murder. A white kissing a woman is murder to these nutjobs.

    1. Caamib get thee behind me satan, racist miserable devil!! May God have mercy on your evil hateful miserable soul! BEELZEEBUB will take many souls with him to the Lake of Fire:
      1 Corinthians 15:50
      Revelations 21:8
      How dare you hate women and others of different races or anyone!
      MATTHEW 22:36-40
      1 John 4:20
      1 John 3:15-17
      How DARE you make sex into an idol and entitle yourself to rape women, children and the dead??!
      Deuteronomy 22 :25-27
      Leviticus 20:15

      It is disgusting that a male can be so low down and vile and puny and feel so powerless that satan has him convinced that by violating people with his disgusting penis (which he uses as an assault weapon) that he is somehow obtaining “power” by doing so.
      It is appalling how weak and miserable and diabolical some males are. You are suffering from the demon spirit of rejection and it has many demonic systems attached to it including bitterness, rage, hatred, malice, and murder.
      You need an excorcism.
      You need to seek deliverance and you need Jesus. Depart from satan and turn to Jesus. Before it is too LATE!

  4. Jesus Christ.

    I’ve been to a few incel sites for the laughs and the cringe, but seeing all this gathered in one place is just depressing and disgusting. I can’t imagine what researching and compiling this was like.

    Still, it’s a pretty good look into this phenomenon. In my mind, I always divided into lonely guys, psychopaths, and trolls. I think you break down the different aspects of it very well here.

    Also, not surprised to see that CAAMIB guy here. I’m sure you came across him in your research.I’d say he’s like cancer, but cancer doesn’t spread as fast or shit up everything as completely as he does. I’m also certain cancer is more likeable than him as well.

    1. I would also posit that cancer is more grounded to reality. Cancer never got arrested by the Croatian police for sharing such appalling revenge fantasies on a love-shy forum that Interpol got involved. And thank heavens cancer doesn’t have a mother. It irks to have such a person trying to control the conversation by bring up his strawman ideas of liberals or egalitarian ideology in general but I will try to endure.

      There are cultural forces beyond the control of many incels that have led us to have so many enclaves of really unhappy young men. It’s just shocking to see how bad it can get. I know psychologically that people are more likely to talk crap when they are around others of similar mind, and that has to be at play here, all the egging on of violent comments.

      But that only gets us so far. It’s indeed dark and unpleasant once you crawl around in it.

  5. Of course, neither one of these two morons offered any rebuttal to what I said, mere insults. So typical for modern culture. Also, I haven’t been on the internet for the last 3-4 months or so.

    Idiots like the these on this site are the ones calling out people like me when we call for violence against scum like feminists. Guess what? While not all incels hold the same views exactly all feminists hold views that are bad in their essence, like that women should vote or pick their own husbands. This is a big difference. Feminism and liberalism are actual cancers of society.

  6. Also, an honest question – why do you talk about violence here when you’re all for most brutal forms of violence, as long as the victims are white males? Hell, they don’t even have to be males as long as their white and the perpetrators are blacks or Hispanics. You’re for this violence even against very small children.

      1. Feeble attempts at humor won’t change my point – that many of these who claim some non-existent incel “movement” (do you even know what a movement is?) do violence are more than willing to the kind of violence that would make Hitlerite’s blush. What he killed is nothing when compared to savage genocide liberals want to inflict on whites for imaginary crimes. A white male born in 2019 shouldn’t have to burn because of what some whites did in the year 1500. Yet, according to liberals he should die a long, painful death.

        1. Second and last reply to you, Marjan.

          One of the reasons you are such a scourge on the Internet is because you have an e-dog-whistle in your head. You read “incel” and you respond with every point you’ve ever made whether or not it is relevant and you don’t even bother to read the articles you comment upon. You’ve asked me questions answered in the article, complained I didn’t address issues that were addressed and made assumptions about the universality of liberalism that are in no way born out by the content of MY article. I don’t lump incels together as one huge group. Rather I indicate how the antics of men like you taint the rest of the incels (yes, you say you aren’t an incel but you are linked to the movement now, whether you like it or not).

          I’ve been very specific in the examples I’ve used in my article. If I say that a specific person did or said a specific thing, I show proof. I assigned specific belief sets to increasing tiers of virulence and provided proof to bolster my claims such tiers exist, showing the vast difference between Tier One and Tier five incels.

          But here you are, in bad faith, making bizarre claims like liberals want white genocide and are worse than WW2 pro-fascists in terms of the blood lust you think we have for white dudes. You assigned to Ben something he never said, something you could never prove he said, because you’ve got a slippery slope notion about what liberal guilt means in terms of The White Man.

          You don’t have to stay on topic, you don’t have to avoid these extravagant strawmen wherein you attempt to deflect the intellectual paucity of your position by misrepresenting the argument of those who debate with you, but maybe consider it. I say with all candor that I deliberately did not discuss you or mention your name for fear you’d hie yourself over here and completely crap up the comments and I should have known that you’d have been here within seconds of me posting the word “incel” online. After posting it people familiar with incels asked me, “Has Marjan showed up yet,” not realizing that you had.

          And here we are.

          Remember, no more ad hominem. Don’t insult commenters here. Strawman it up all you want, be humor teflon, assume a position of universal authority – just don’t call anyone names and I won’t ban you.

    1. Marjan, you hovered over the line of ad hominem in your last comments but the reason I am screening you, possibly banning you later if I decide it’s necessary, is because you add nothing to the conversation while crowding out people who do. For now, once you post them I will screen any comment that is just more of the same typical caamib stream-of-whargarbl.

      I don’t like doing this. In over a decade of running this site I have banned fewer than 20 people of of those only 2 stayed banned. You are in very tiresome company. But until I ban you outright, if you add to the conversation without relying on your pre-set talking points that you recite whether or not they have anything to do with the topic and you refrain from ad hominem, I’ll approve your comment.

      Be well.

    1. No, that is not the solution. The problem would still be where to find a good wife in a sick modern Western society. Well, obviously you can’t find one there so you have to look for her in a non-feminist country, but even upon finding one more problems arise – what if you have to bring her back and she becomes infected with modern culture and a worthless slut who’ll cheat on you?

      1. One of the biggest problems you face online is that you cannot approach any issue from any angle except that of Marjan. What Marjan feels and needs is all you can acknowledge and you assume that people who would avail themselves of a prostitute in order to have access to sex want to marry her or see prostitutes as “worthless sluts.”

        A man who has a terminal disease that affects his appearance and causes him to be disabled is not looking for the same things in like you are. And not everyone shares your perspective on feminism or the West in general yet you approach the issue from such an ironclad position of authority that there you seem unable to process that what you present is your point of view, not a truth universally acknowledged.

        Seriously, Marjan. What in this discussion about legalizing prostitution to prevent incels from feeling sexually alienated makes you think anyone wants to bring a prostitute home and marry her? The answer is that you have filtered this scenario through the narrow corridors of your experience and assume, wrongly, that the purpose of all Western sex is to engage in coitus Marjanicus and any deviation from that is wrong.

        I decided to respond to you in two comments and after that let you be. I won’t ban you from commenting here as long as you refrain from ad hominem attacks on other people. Do not call anyone else commenting here names and I won’t have any problem with you continuing to showboat. You’re proving every point I made in my article – I don’t want to shut you down unless I have to because you are very helpful in demonstrating why incels face so much derision and mockery.

        But I will if I have to. Don’t insult people. If you need to insult, you have your own site and can do it there. One simple rule. Please abide by it.

        1. Anita, I say this only half-jokingly: Is being humor teflon a disability somewhat akin to having half your face eaten by a tumor or a pipe bomb?

    2. I don’t think it would solve all the problems because then we get into issues of financial capacity to pay and the entitlement some incels feel regarding sex, like the government should give them sex for free and it would be super hard to convince most Western tax payers to pay for anyone to have sex.

      Plus I’m torn on this issue because prostitution can often be such a nasty, degrading profession and legalization may not address all those ills. But lots of work is nasty and degrading, and prostitution will never go away no matter how illegal it is. So why not acknowledge it, tax it, regulate it and eliminate some of the harms? I can see both sides, I guess.

      But for Tier One incels, prostitution gives them access to a part of life that they would ordinarily not be able to experience. We like to infantilize those who have disabilities, pretend they don’t have adult needs, and that’s a demeaning approach. Here’s an interesting reaction to how the disabled feel like prostitutes improve their lives and outlooks:

  7. Looks like you deleted “caamib”‘s latest comments before I could respond to him but I wanted to correct his assertion that you are some web nobody with nary a single friend or reader to warn you of various incel chucklefucks who might overreact to your blog.

    “caamib”, I literally warned Anita of you just before you showed up. I bet there were others because you’re a grim and boring inevitability whenever this topic comes up. Mention incel, wait for “caamib,” tolerate him for longer than he deserves, ban him, tomorrow is another day.

    Unrelated to the Croat Goat (pronounced go-aut), this is a surprisingly deep and sympathetic look at a group of really unstable people. I knew about the Turkish kid and the dead dog from Ann’s Hangout, but the rest was new and I commend you for being able to read that sort of stupidity and violence without going mad yourself.

    1. His comments are still there, just screened. I didn’t want to ban him on the off chance he manages to respond to what is being written. Interestingly, Jeff (not Rense) and a woman I know only from Goodreads reached out about Marjan when the discussion went online.

      I think the vast majority of incel rhetoric in the links by tier are grandstanding or the result of young men egging each other on. That makes it a lot easier to read, I think. Also, I think I’m numb to this sort of thing. I don’t know whether or not that is a good thing.

  8. This is an excellent article that will be of archival interest to people who research this topic for a long while to come. The research is beyond impressive.

    To amplify a point you make often enough, I have to imagine that the neuro-atypicals who have come to dominate this fucked-up online demimonde don’t represent the genuine angst that goes around more like an old Violent Femmes song in the minds of many unfulfilled young men who have been trained to silence. It’s a sad situation for those who might log in seeking sanctuary and solace in anonymous spaces, only to be crowded out by psychotic upmanship. That’s the internet, I suppose.

    On prostitution, I would be very interested in your thoughts on Chester Brown’s graphic (as in illustrated) memoir, “Paying for It” — particularly with regard to his appending essay where he argues in favor of decriminalization over legalization.

  9. This is powerful stuff, a lot more detail and analysis on a frustratingly baffling subject than I have ever found anywhere else. I must confess to being a bit puzzled by a certain indulgent sympathy you seem to feel toward this unlovely class of hapless individuals, but no matter; you seem to have turned that sentiment to account as a tool with which to dig that much deeper and reveal that much more. I am a novelist, currently at work on a plotline that involves at least one incel spree shooting so far, but conscious of a need to know a heluva lot more about my subject than its usefulness as a topical plot device, and a friend’s showing me your article was a great stroke of luck. For all of your great detail-work, there is one thing that bothers me, which is the same thing as bothers me in all matters of this sort, namely, so much about the what, but nothing about the why. I have learned so much about what people like spree shooters think, but so far hardly clue one about why they think it. This is my awkward experience in trying to understand all the proliferating forms of Millennial derangements; all the what of what they do and experience hauled out into the broad light of day, but never a photon spent by anybody (unless you count the deranged rantings of the perps themselves) about the why, the only question, actually, that ever ultimately matters. It is not enough to merely shrug, like most people, and say they’re nutz; no no no. For anything that anybody anywhere ever does, there is always a logic, a reason. It may be a mad illogical logic, an irrational reason, one that even the doer isn’t aware of or doesn’t understand himself, but nothing that anyone ever does just “happens.” The fact that there is an agency at all attests of itself to a cause. If I’m to write at all about something like incels, even as a fictional device, the temptation to write something useful or intelligent about them, based on actual knowledge of WHY they think and do what they think and do, is simply irresistible. But thanks anyway for a great article, and for your time, and I solemnly promise never to shoot you, throw acid in your face, etc. etc. etc……………Garman Lord

  10. Grotesque here.

    I enjoyed this article about me very much. Thanks.

    I’ll gladly give your gifts to D. [Therapist name redacted by site admin, nothing else in comment was edited.]

    1. Glad I could help.

      It seems a bad idea for you to bring up your therapist. I mean, as long as you aren’t contacting her there’s no way you are in violation of a restraining order, if one exists, but why go down roads that only result in you ruminating on her, or could possibly be construed by strict authorities as a plan to try to visit her. And the only gift you can really give her from me is to continue to leave her alone.

      What happened to get you banned over on Kiwi Farms? If you don’t mind sharing…

      1. I am in violation of a restraining order by simply mentioning her in these comments, I don’t even need to specifically say her name.

        I received no reason why I was banned on Kiwi Farms. They’re strict there, so I wasn’t surprised.

        On a serious note reading this again, the common insecurity that most of us incels face is that we feel subhuman, and when those feelings get severe enough like they are for myself, we get suicidal and lose our inhibitions. De-humanizing us further is only going to fuel our anger, and increase the chances of damage caused to you. The only realistic way for you to help those you see as subhuman is to ignore us.

        1. Grotesque, I know you aren’t reading here every day so don’t have any expectation of a prompt reply, but in your own time, if you are inclined, can you answer these for me: Do you see any way you could have avoided this state of being? Is there anything anyone could do now to help you? Or do you think this feeling of being subhuman is just something that happens to a select group of people – because there are female incels too, though notably they are less violent than their male counterparts – and is part of the human condition?

          1. Replying nearly a year later. I’ve changed somewhat on my incel status, in that I don’t identify as one any longer. But, most of my thoughts have not significantly changed other than not wishing harm upon women.

            “Do you see any way you could have avoided this state of being?”

            No. My case is too severe since I’m diagnosed autistic with antisocial disorder, ugly with poor genetics. Even today, counselors have given up on me, which is sadly too common among people I’ve been with in group therapy and the disabled community I live in. Therapy never helped me and that’s usually the case with incels.

            “Is there anything anyone could do now to help you?”

            The first thing society needs to do to address the incel problem is legalize prostitution, and kill the stigma surrounding it. I saw a handful of escorts in summer 2019, and it helped me. It’s not optimal, but it ceased a lot of my frustrations. Other than that, I don’t know. There’s a clear imbalance towards females in the current dating market, and that’s based on societal changes that I can’t predict.

            “Or do you think this feeling of being subhuman is just something that happens to a select group of people – because there are female incels too, though notably they are less violent than their male counterparts – and is part of the human condition?”

            There’s a percentage of males that just aren’t good enough. I’m one of them, although I don’t like the term “subhuman” to describe myself anymore. I’d say around 20-30% of males fall into this.

            There’s no such thing as a female incel. 100% of women can find sexual partners if they are at a healthy weight. Not all women can find the relationship they want, which I am more cognizant of now instead of previously only thinking about sex.

            Women are less violent in general. I think that’s mostly human brain chemistry.

  11. Absolutely outrageous to compare radical feminism with incels.

    Our once mighty movement is split down the middle and why? You have a good think about why.

    Notice how you couldnt even write about incels without having a go at your fellow woman. You are no feminist.

    And if porn is so ’empowering’ then why dont people with power do it? How come young men dont sell premium snapchats to gay guys, or to unattractive women? How come they dont pose with a dildo up their anuses? Because it would degrade them, wouldnt it? Putting their bodies on sale…they would never be taken seriously again. Yet when women do it…all of a sudden, after ‘inclusivity’ became mandatory, it became ’empowering’. Just as Cosmo, which used to challenge the demands on women’s appearance, now does articles trying out lip fillers..instead of asking why women’s natural lips arent enough.

    1. It took me a few minutes but I think I’ve parsed out why you are angry.

      In regards to radical feminism, perhaps I could have been more specific in my statement that incelery is the other side of the radical feminist coin. I suspect that sentence is why you are annoyed. Please bear in mind the coin is not any perceived common ground or ideology shared by radical feminism or incelery as a whole. The coin is rape, and I hoped the context would have shown that but I can see how it may not have been clear. Marilyn French’s Val is absolutely the other side of incel beliefs that they have the right to rape women. In regards to Jim Goad, the radical feminists in question had created a strawman of male behavior yet were shocked when Goad produced a magazine that outright echoed the ideas of the “Vals” among them. The surprise of those specific radfems who insisted culture was nothing but a pro-rape free for all when they actually encountered a magazine ostensibly representing a pro-rape free for all is instructive in determining whether or not their initial reactions were valid and based in reality. In my opinion, they weren’t. Nor are the beliefs of most incels.

      It took me forever to figure out why you went off on a rant about pornography. I didn’t recall writing about pornography in this article. Then I realized you were referring to a tag line I gave to link to a foul screenshot in the postscript where I declared in an off-the-cuff manner that the incel reaction was similar to what radical feminists say about porn. I’m inferring that you think I claim making porn can be an empowering experience for women, though I have no idea why you reached that conclusion. Or maybe I don’t get what you mean here. If not, feel free to clarify what you took away from that.

      But let me clarify: If you read the repulsive screenshot, you no doubt noted the young man was telling women exactly why extreme gonzo porn was not empowering and that the degradation was why men enjoyed watching and performing such acts. Isn’t that exactly what radfems said/currently say about porn? There was no value judgement on my end regarding radfem beliefs about pornograpy, just a sort of “holy crap” realization that this nasty kid was parroting almost line for line many radfem stances on pornography, proving them right.

      Finally, I reject your gatekeeping. I’ll continue to call myself a feminist regardless of your no true Scotsman-ing.

  12. Marjan, Caamib, Thorn in the Ass of All Sensible Women, in response to the most recent comment you left here: your comments are here. They have not been deleted. They have simply been filtered and unapproved so that you can’t derail like you’re getting paid. Because you are so literal and utterly without nuance, I’m not insinuating that you’re getting paid to be a pain in the ass. Your commentary is worthless. No one would ever pay you for anything you’ve posted here. If I ever need to reinstate your comments, I can and I will. But they don’t offer anything more than you just stating the same stupid shit over and over without actually reading or responding properly to the text or other comments. So until you can focus, read carefully, and construct a sentence that isn’t a strawman or insulting to others here who do, in fact, add to the conversation, there is no sense in letting your bullshit clutter up my site.

    No one here has ever insinuated you wanted to have sex with your daughter. If I overlooked such an accusation, leave me yet another goddamned comment with a link and I’ll make note of it. I didn’t know you had a daughter, and am appalled to learn that you may have a child somewhere dependent on you. I have screenshots of what you are most famous for, so let me be clear, this is all I accuse you of:

    –You demanded your mother have sex with you more than once and then said she should have been put to death for refusing to fuck you.
    –You were such a menace in the things you said online that legal steps were taken to rein you in.
    –You then begged the judge in the case against you to fuck you.

    These are all things that objectively happened or you reported them yourself in your quixotic attempt to demonize your mother for not having sex with you.

    When incels and their related kin are discussed for wanting to have sex with children or their daughters, I’ve been careful to link to the actual comment or provide a screenshot. This entry is not about you alone. It’s not even about you in particular. You are one of many unsettling and foul men who fall into Tiers 3-6 Incelery. Unless I state, outright, that Marjan did something, assume I am not talking about you. I know it will be hard for you to face that you aren’t all I am talking about in this massive entry, but do your best.

    I do not care if you dislike how I handle my site. Your opinion doesn’t matter. It never will. So allow me to suggest that if you dislike this site so much that you stop visiting. I don’t have a lot of Croatian readers, so you sort of leave an electronic slug trail when you lurk. Stop lurking and you’ll be golden. I hate being this cruel but goddamn…

  13. As a former incel that was deep into it, online and off, I have absolutely no sympathy for incels. And I don’t believe they deserve any.

    Reasons require just way too much typing here.

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