Last summer Ann Sterzinger asked me to participate in a podcast with alt.right writer Andy Nowicki in which we discussed incels. “Incel” is a portmanteau that combines the words “involuntary celibacy.” Incels, mostly young, alienated men, had (and have) been in the news due to several deadly rampages committed by young men with links to or assumed to be part of incel culture. This conversation took place shortly after the Santa Fe high school shooting, wherein a young man shot and killed ten people. Sometimes the media got it right – Alek Minassian, the man who ran a van into a crowd in Toronto, was undeniably part of incel culture. The affiliation was far less clear with Dimitrios Pagourtzis, the young man who shot up the high school in Santa Fe, Texas, even though one of his victims was a girl who had refused to be his girlfriend. Either way, both attacks were presented as incel rampages in the press and suddenly all across the Internet people were talking about incels, as each month seemed to bring a new attack committed in the name of incel-ery.
The discussion with Andy dealt more with the macro of incel-ery, the big picture of how it is we’ve ended up with a group of unhappy and often unstable young men who loathe women, successful men, feminism, and the modern world. I tend to focus on the micro, the individuals who make up movements, so I’m unsure how much I added to the conversation. I wish I had been more on the ball because Andy Nowicki asked a very good, very humane question that this article is going to attempt to answer.
Andy wanted to know why it is that people find it so easy to mock and deride incels when they share what for them is very real, very tangible pain regarding their role in the modern world. We laugh at these young men in a way we would not laugh at women who share their own pain. Though there are a lot of ideas that “incel” covers, the primary issue often boils down to men who are angry or sad that they cannot have the sorts of sexual relationships they prefer with the sorts of women they prefer.
However, when you look at the whole of what fuels this sort of discontent, you see a group of human beings who feel like the modern world has stripped them of all dignity, decent employment prospects, and possible family life. Plenty focus their anger on the lack of sex that named the subculture but they also speak in depth about humiliations they experienced or perceived when just trying to talk to a woman, apply for a job, speak in class, go to a gym, pay for cigarettes and on and on.
It’s a litany of human misery and it’s interesting that among leftists who decry “toxic masculinity,” those very people find it easy to mock men who report crying when being rejected or rebuffed, who reveal vulnerability when they report their inability to reach basic cultural milestones. It’s a question worth asking – why do we mock these particular men who reveal their weaknesses?
There are several answers to this question. Among them: chivalry isn’t dead yet and we live in a culture in the West wherein we punish emotional response in men while rewarding it in women. But it’s curious that many still mock incels even after seeing the harm these disenfranchised young men can do.
Initially, when people see the entitled whining some incels engage in online, people mock them because if you aren’t experiencing youthful angst yourself, reading it wears thin and can seem ridiculous. But we continue to mock them after seeing incel mass murders because there’s something inherently ridiculous in the idea that anyone would consider sex such a natural human right that they could justify murder in the name of libido.
This is a very long article, tl;dr on a grand scale. The rest is under the cut.
This question regarding mockery is important for me because I’m discussing Elliot Rodger’s manifesto, My Twisted World, in my upcoming book that analyzes manifestos that straddle the line between personal apologia for criminal activity and platforms for political and social goals. Elliot Rodger, arguably the most famous incel, killed six people and himself in a planned rampage that he hoped would be an act of vengeance against the people whom he felt had lives better than his. Alek Minassian referenced Elliot as a role model and for many incels Elliot Rodger is a patron saint of sorts.
Elliot Rodger’s manifesto evokes a lot of emotions for me. He was undeniably an elitist and self-absorbed to the point of utter paranoia, but in that paranoia was a young man whose sole sense of self relied upon obtaining female companionship. He was so overwhelmed with anxiety throughout most of his life that you’d have to possess a heart of stone not to have some pity, however minor, for him. It was excruciating reading how he assigned his failures to factors that had nothing to do with how his anxiety, personality flaws, and fear consumed his self-assurance and ambition.
Elliot was the son of a semi-successful film director and a grandson of a famous photographer. He loved his mother and both his grandmothers (though he expressed bizarre anger towards his mother near the end), even expressing kind feelings for his step-grandmother though he loathed his step-mother. He had many female teachers he liked and praised. He hardly seemed like a young man whose life would take the misogynistic course that it did. But to anyone who read his manifesto with an eye focused on understanding how Elliot ended up a self-pitying, aimless, violent incel, there were clear, unambiguous answers to that question. Elliot’s manifesto, frustrating to read at times because he was so very unlikable, was all the harder to read when I realized that many people like Andy may think that the sad confused Elliot, the sympathetic and melodramatic boy who tried to learn to be a skateboarder to fit in with cool kids, was the same Elliot who shot and stabbed people because blondes he never spoke to dared live a life that did not involve him.
Elliot underwent a transformation from awkward preteen terrified of being humiliated to a vicious, nasty misogynist who focused his rage at attractive blonde women and the men they dated. More than once he threw drinks at couples who infuriated him because they were happy in his presence. He dropped college classes multiple times because he could not bear to see pretty blondes speaking to other men. He even eavesdropped on his sister having sex, outraged that she lost her virginity before he did. People around him noticed his descent from the shy, anxiety-ridden teen to a man so angry about being a virgin that he wanted to kill blonde women, women he never made an attempt to meet, women who had no idea a total stranger felt rejected by them. His family tried to get him help. Acquaintances and friends confronted his foul opinions. People saw what was in front of them but law enforcement cannot arrest and detain permanently a person with foul ideas who has not acted on them. His videos were alarming to everyone who saw them – he was obviously a ticking time bomb. But if you did not know he had killed six people, his manifesto would be unremarkable compared to statements from similarly unwell young men.
With Elliot’s manifesto fresh in my mind, I can tell you, as unbelievable as it may seem, My Twisted Life pales in comparison to some of the rhetoric from his online brethren. Some of it is ridiculous posturing that some take seriously only because a handful of incels have done the worst, and much of incel communication is filled with over-the-top statements, depressing whining, and self-entitled ranting. Researching the milieu for which Elliot is now a hero means I have read some terrible things, nasty content that in no way shows us how we have ended up with these unhappy, angry men because too often their rhetoric is based in belief, not experience. Alongside sad posts wherein young men talk about feeling too ugly or awkward to get a girlfriend, there are fantasies of violent rape and murder, with rhetoric including advocacy of pedophilia, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, necrobestiality, and bizarre expressions of racism. Faced with such extremity, some of it insincere, it’s hard not to roll my eyes. But the fact remains that Elliot, who killed people because he felt he had no hope of experiencing sex with a woman, somehow on paper is more sympathetic to me, a liberal feminist, than those who have taken up his mantle. Of course once you read his manifesto with knowledge of his murders, Elliot becomes the worst of several evils, but also bear in mind what your reaction would be if you stumbled across some of what I plan to present here without previously exploring and trying to understand incel culture. I feel a certain derision as I read some of these statements but if my step-father read this sort of rhetoric, it would make him sick.
Derision or nausea. Those are the only real options one has when confronted with the bulk of incel rhetoric. This extremity is nothing new – many incels are the other side of the radical feminist coin. The same cultural centrists who recoil at Marilyn French’s insistence that all men are rapists haven’t flipped that coin to see some young men insisting all women deserve rape. Many people who come across incel rhetoric have no cultural knowledge of provocateurs like Jim Goad. Goad came to liberal attention in the 1990s because of an infamous ‘zine he wrote and edited called ANSWER Me! The fourth issue, the so-called “rape” issue, focused on sexual violence, mostly against women, and it infuriated feminists.
Many people missed the fact that Jim and the other ‘zine contributors were often using radical feminist ideas, writing in the voices radical feminists had assigned to them. When their own beliefs about men were parroted back at them, feminists became enraged, almost as if it were the first time they were actually seeing in print all the evils they had assigned to men, which causes one to wonder why they were shocked when their accusations seemed to be bearing fruit. Jim was pointing out the hyperbolic hysteria many radical feminists brought to the table, ideas that seldom had as much basis in reality as they wanted to believe.
For every person who can see the cultural roots of acting out in the voice the accuser assigned you, there are many more whose knowledge of incel-ery is derived from a kid on Reddit upset for an entire week because a cashier at the gas station didn’t smile at him the way she did at the guy in line behind him. For every hundred anxious adults who have never had sex and are lonely, we see a news report about an incel committing an act of violence. We mock them because they are ridiculous and we mock them because we often mock that which terrifies us. Think of the way Islamophobes speak of Muslims – they deride them as backwards and primitive even after they almost effortlessly took down a symbol of American progress and commerce. We do similar things with incels.
And that’s problematic because it is very easy to take the outrageous ideas shared by unstable young men and assign them to the whole of incels. Incels are as much a hashtag as a genuine social movement so there is no way for the kids who are feeling genuine pain and exclusion due to no fault of their own, or just going through a stage, to police the demented men who post about wanting to rape their mothers and have sex with dead dogs because modern women are just that evil that they have no choice. Worse, those espousing such gross ideas are often the moderators of message boards and social media sites that cater to incels and various offshoots of thwarted masculinity, like MGTOWs and reactionary traditionalists who worry about what they consider toxic feminist influences.
Equally problematic are those who never see all the gross rhetoric. They read the Reddit tale of that high school kid shattered because a girl didn’t make eye contact with him and assume that the incels who kill are outliers in an stigmatized but otherwise harmless group. I suspect if what I plan to share in this article was well-known, popular reaction would shift from mockery to angry disgust. In a way, mockery is the best reaction most incels could possibly hope for.
I don’t know Andy Nowicki well, but I suspect he would not want any of the men I am about to discuss coming anywhere near his wife or daughter. I also don’t think he had any idea of the depravity one finds in the incel camps, group depravity that strips away sympathy for the individual. He was looking at the big picture and as I mentioned I tend to look at the trees before the forest. But once you have a grip on what the rank and file visitors to incel realms find online you will understand why people find it so easy to loathe and mock incels and why this largely incompetent group of young men are feared. And it’s not just some sort of overreaction – there have been at least six massacres or murders in the USA since 2014 linked directly to the more loathsome ends of incel ideology. But even outside actual calls to arms, some incel beliefs are really so gross, unnerving, and depraved that short of outrage all you can do is mock. Sadly, that mockery trickles down to the kids who need understanding and the genuinely afflicted who need assistance.
These three specific men I am going to discuss are incels who have inspired outrage and mockery due to the extraordinarily horrible things they say and admit to doing. At times it’s clear that a lot of the over-the-top comments other incels are the result of them egging each other on, and that some of the comments are left by trolls intent on stirring the pot. But trolls or not, some incels seem unhinged and make it hard for even bleeding hearts like me to feel much empathy, even as I acknowledge the negative social influences that create incels (which is another tl;dr article in itself).
Before we begin, let me give some basic information for people unfamiliar with incels.
“Incel” covers a lot of ground. Initially “incel” referred to both sexes – the term was coined by a woman who has since had a long dark night of the soul. Her attempt at creating comfortable community for people who have a lot of trouble making romantic and sexual ties has now been twisted to such lengths that a convincing argument can be made that incels are a hate group. Under the label of “incel” you find varying types of mostly men, some sympathetic, some virulent, some days away from doing something dreadful. Consider this the OTC Guide to Incel Subtypes:
Tier One: Here you find the sorts of men the incel label was created for. This group consists of men who suffer from various physical and mental afflictions that make it hard for them to date or find a girlfriend. Think quadriplegia, severe mental illness, extreme social anxiety, or appearances that radically differ from certain norms, like men with Treacher Collins syndrome, men who are morbidly obese, or who have pituitary conditions like acromegaly. These men can genuinely attribute a lack of romantic success or sexual access to conditions that cause others to consider them unattractive, or intractable mental or emotional states that make socializing difficult to impossible. Among these men you find discussions of the emotional sadness they feel, sometimes expressing anger at a society that excludes them on the basis of characteristics they cannot change, but you also find discussions about the ways these men can find a way around their issues. Among this tier you find men who want to legalize prostitution because there are sex workers who specialize in long-term clients who have physical and social disabilities. You seldom see this tier referring to women as a whole as stupid, depraved whores. They want solutions, not a scapegoat.
Tier 2: Here you find the incels who are largely benign but are quite irritating to read if you’ve aged out of John Hughes films. This tier consists of men who feel that their lack of social success is because women prefer assholes and therefore “nice guys” don’t stand a chance with most attractive women. They brand pretty women who prefer brutish men “Stacy” and those men they prefer are referred to as “Chad.” Stacys and Chads come up frequently among incels and Stacys can always be assumed to be pretty girls who won’t sleep with incels and Chads can always be assumed to be traditionally good looking men whom incels envy. “Becky” is the term for women who are considered normal or middling in appearance, and most Tier 2 incels have no interest in women who are not supermodel beautiful, even if they themselves are only average in appearance (they call themselves “betas” as opposed to Chads who are “alphas”) and will often reject a Becky who shows any interest in them. Tier 2 is seen as whiny and entitled and receives a lot of mockery online but is, outside of casual, self-serving misogyny, largely harmless. Tier 2 incels also have a good chance of growing out of their “nice guy” beliefs because a good portion simply have teen angst, or have changeable issues, like aging out of hormonal acne and developing a better sense of style. Some of these guys also just grow up emotionally and develop the confidence to stop seeing themselves and others through such labels.
Tier 3: This group consists of young men who have passed from casual but self-serving misogyny (self-serving misogyny describes when dislike of women only extends to how they think women affect them) into active belief that all women are terrible in every regard. They absolutely hate women, and they also hate men they perceive are more successful (if a former incel speaks of finally sleeping with a woman, depending on the community they will turn on him and consider him a Chad, ousting him from their social media). They believe all women are duplicitous whores who will have degrading and depraved sex with any handsome man who walks by. They think women only turn to “nice guys” when they need a man to help them raise the bastards Chads abandoned. They feel women are always waiting for sex with an alpha Chad, and even after marriage will cheat on them if given a chance with a handsome guy. They resent that women who have “hit the wall,” meaning they have aged too much to be able to date Chads, only want them after their sexual prime has passed. Occasionally you will find a Tier 3 who thinks he is an old school romantic who just wants a nice girl but if you press for details you end up with a scenario wherein a woman is treated like a pet – probably loved but confined entirely to the house, sleeping at the foot of the bed or sitting at their feet.
Tier 4: This tier share all the beliefs of Tier 3, but they have created an entire school of pseudo-science to prove how disgusting women are. They are convinced sexual promiscuity can be determined by the color and length of labia (“roasties” is a derogatory term for women they consider sexually immodest whom they believe have had so much sex it darkened and stretched out their labia minora to resemble slices of roast beef used in sandwiches). They are so convinced of the innate depravity of women that they accuse women who own any dog larger than a chihuahua as having sex with the pet. They have bizarre and unshakeable ideas about why women use tampons and what tampons actually do. They believe women are incapable of making proper decisions about whom they date and choose to sleep with and such choices must be removed from them to prevent the collapse of society. Yet if attractive women express interest in these men, chances are they will be suspicious and verbally abuse them until they go away. Their world view is such that all women are lascivious whores and are only interested in them because they somehow need something non-sexual from them, or may want solely to humiliate them. Any attempt to correct their strange views about women is seen as suspicious and they are paranoid, seeing incel mockery in every social interaction. Their paranoia is only trumped by their entitlement.
Tier 5: Take all the virulent beliefs, pseudo-science that “proves” depravity in women, and senseless entitlement in Tier 4 men and turn it up to 11. Tier 5 consists of men who have gone way beyond hating women and men they believe are more successful than them. Here you find (mostly) white men using hatred of women to justify their worst impulses, among them:
–Men who harbor racist views, substituting “Tyrone” for Chad as the man all white women want to have sex with, reinforcing ideas of female depravity because in their minds no decent white woman would ever have sex with a racial minority. These men consider soiled forever a woman who has sex outside her race. Interestingly, some of these racist men justify marrying Asian women, especially those from Southeast Asian countries who travel to the West to improve their economic conditions. Some racists consider Asians “third world Aryans” and think women from “traditional” cultures are easier to control and less tainted by feminism. There is often a low simmer of unease amongst incels who are not Caucasian and white incels who are racists.
— Authoritarian men who insist “white sharia” is needed to control women so that men can reduce the options available to them. If a woman cannot get a job or control her fertility she is less likely to have sex with Chads or Tyrones. They will marry young and remain in their kitchens since they will have no other options. Among these men you find lots of exhortations to rescind the right to vote for women and to return to a time when women had no legal rights to property. Some advocate harsh punishment for women who have sex outside of marriage. Physical violence against women is advocated if it keeps them in line.
–Pedophiles and all the other “philes” whose sexual preferences demand children, pre-teens or teenagers as preferred partners, who will use female choice in partner and career as a reason to lower ages of consent so that little girls can essentially be married off while in grade school and then trained to be the perfect woman by their husbands. They talk a lot about the case of Eunice Winstead Johns, a nine-year-old girl whose marriage to a 22-year-old man in 1937 is touted as the ideal way to get a virgin. The girl will come into the marriage as a subordinate, a child answering to a new paternal figure who also has sex with her. They insist it isn’t pedophilia even as they rationalize having sex with a fourth grader whose husband presented her with a big doll to play with just before their marriage.
–Necrophiles who justify having sex with the dead because dead women won’t say no to any sexual advances, divorce you, or leave you for Tyrone.
–Zoophiles who justify having sex with dogs all because women are so depraved they have no choice but to sleep with animals. Sometimes, as you will soon find, the animals don’t even need to be alive.
–Men who believe that their mothers and sisters should be legally and morally obliged to have sex with them if they cannot find romantic partners, and punished if they refuse.
–Men who advocate stalking and publicly abusing random women just to make them feel afraid because fearful women are easier to control and because it feeds a sadistic delight when they sense their targets experience fear.
–Men who speak of violent action against society and/or revere incels who have engaged in violence.
Tier 6: Combine all the horror show elements of Tiers 4 and 5 and factor in specific plans for revenge that may or may not be enacted. Tier 6 contains some of the nastiest and most alarming content you can read online and in several cases some of this content turned out to be plans that turned into violent events. Tier 6, in a sense, is Tier 5 visualized and made real. It can be hard to tell the difference between Tier 5 and Tier 6 and it is sort of amorphous, but it’s a distinction you understand once you’ve read this shit long enough. Tier 5 are just acting out online, Tier 6 are making plans. If Tier 5 speaks about drugging women to rape them, Tier 6 has obtained the drugs to do so. If Tier 5 speaks of obtaining a gun, Tier 6 has the gun and plenty of ammunition. Tier 6 men may not have pulled the trigger but they’ve threatened it enough to have restraining orders issued against them.
There are those who say most of the Tier 5 and 6 incels are just trolls, and there is some truth to that belief. But too many of these ideas have been shared under genuine identities, with pictures of the men available online, for that to hold water. (I have come to believe that many of the “share your picture so you can prove you’re too ugly to get a girl” threads that used to exist on Reddit got authorities more names to watch than any FBI or Interpol honeypot could ever have achieved). These tiers are also progressive, which means if a Tier 2 doesn’t grow out of his angst, he can begin to ascend to higher tiers. This played out clearly in Elliot Rodger’s manifesto. He began as a Tier 2, and toward the end was a solid Tier 6.
Along with my own tiers of incel-ery, alongside terms like “Becky,” “Stacy,” “Chad” and similar, you may encounter:
–Blue pill and red pill: This is a Matrix reference that alludes to the idea that people who take the blue pill when faced, as Neo was, with knowing the real nature of the world, willingly remain ignorant. Among incels, those who take the red pill are suddenly aware of the innate wickedness and triviality of women everywhere and can no longer return to their happy days before they realized all women who don’t want to have sex with them are evil.
–Black pill: Those who have been “red pilled” regarding the awfulness of the world and realize it cannot be fixed are “black” pilled. They are pessimistic, believe that their lack of female companionship is a form of biological determinism they cannot overcome and are, as a group, generally depressed to the point of nihilism.
–“Cuck” or “cuckdom”: Cuck is the shortened version of the word cuckold, which means a man who is routinely cheated on by his wife, whether or not he is aware of it. The abbreviated form has since come to mean anything from essentially calling a person weak or neutered (the traditional GOP was called “cucks” repeatedly during the 2016 election due to their initial lack of support for Trump) or just someone easily taken advantage of. The original meaning also still applies.
–“Normie”: Basically anyone who isn’t red-pilled (like me, Mr. OTC, Abraham Lincoln, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Queen Elizabeth I and II, all the members of Amorphis, Benjamin Franklin, Shaka Zulu, Chaka Khan, the entire 1976 Philadelphia Flyers starting lining up, and the super cool dude who repaired our dryer last year).
Many of these specific terms are somewhat fluid and are used by other online or hashtag subcultures and not exclusive to incels.
As I share some of my research, please be aware that incel forums on informational and social media sites are often banned, the electronic earth scorched and salted, so original sources may not be available. However, I will have screenshots or archives if the original source is unavailable, or, in some cases, verification from the actual incel in question.
So with all that stated, let’s begin.
knajjd11, Tier 4-5, possibly 6 if you believe his online bragging
knajjd11 came to my attention three years ago for two reasons: he has some of the most fact-resistant and bizarre beliefs about feminine anatomy, and because he superficially reminds me of the kid I went to junior prom with. My date was at best 5’4″, adorable and later handsome, now married to a pretty wife, with kids, and partner in one of the most lucrative and esteemed law firms in North America. According to knajjd11, my old friend should never have achieved any business or social success because he’s not over six feet tall and muscle bound. knajjd11 is a nice-looking young man, though I will admit my advancing age may cause me to look at him with a maternal love of the cute. But he is cute. And all that cute is destroyed when you read his gross and bizarre opinions. (And he’s one who put his pictures online and I will not reproduce them here because I don’t want to, but they are very easy to find online if you fear he is masturbating outside your daughter’s window.)
knajjd11 is notable to me because of his very uninformed beliefs about female anatomy. I’m going to link to screenshots of some of his more bizarre utterances:
Tampons are not something decent women use. They’re more of a tool to masturbate, honestly. It’s akin to putting a vibrator inside your vagina. It (sic) shaking inside as you walk… you may as well get fucked by a stranger.
When someone tries to inform him about the way tampons work – cylindrical cotton that expands to absorb period blood – to him it just proves his demented point even more:
What exactly does knajjd11 think a taint is and why would any woman want to feel it stuffed when walking around. If male, please help me with the following experiment: get about 20 cotton balls and shove them up your ass and walk around for a while and let me know if your taint feels stuffed and, if so, how you feel about it. For science.
Then we get this:
Okay, I’ll cut this kid some slack, to a degree. Every couple of years various forms of media become focused on the fact that the clitoris isn’t just the bulb at the top of the labia majora. Clitoral tissue, when engorged, surrounds the vaginal canal but the clitoris is most definitely outside the vagina. I think he meant to say the clitoris is part of the vulva, and the vaginal opening is part of the vulva. Or he really meant the clitoris is inside the vagina. Either way, he isn’t quite the expert he thinks he is, though this may explain why he thinks wearing a tampon can result in orgasm if it’s left to rattle around and vibrate against an inner clitoris.
I cannot currently find a screen shot of one of knajjd11’s greatest hits: his explanation of how having sex permanently darkens and stretches out the labia minora like they’re made of oxydizing silly putty because the communities featuring this madness are all banned. I have to think someone somewhere has a screenshot and when I find it I will post it. But know this: this young man seemingly has no idea that labia majora and minora color and configuration are strictly genetic traits that have nothing to do with frequency of sexual activity. Virgins can have labia minora that extend past the majora and may not be a perfect virginal pink. (Found this one, an archive of knajjd11’s comments in another post. There are better ones out there and I will rework this as soon as I find them.)
Okay, all of this is dumb. But it is a part of a larger problem of ignorant men insisting that they are experts on female anatomy. If these ignorant men are your boss or lawmakers, they can make your life very difficult or base policy decisions on a complete misunderstanding of the female reproductive system. For example: a young woman worked for a state representative who thought tampons were masturbatory toys and that women could control their periods, stopping them at will. We all kind of remember Rush Limbaugh saying that no woman takes birth control pills to control certain reproductive or health issues like PCOS or migraines, and said Sandra Fluke was a whore because she used birth control daily (DAILY?!?! because I guess he thought taking one pill a month would do for a nice virgin with ovulation issues or that women only take a pill if they plan to have sex immediately afterward). But how about Vito Barbieri, an Idaho state senator whose ignorance was outright scary. Remote areas in Idaho are served by online physicians and women who would ordinarily not have access to emergency birth control could obtain it through such online consultations. But if you ban online medical care, what would virtuous pregnant women out in the boondocks do for routine prenatal care? Barbieri had a great solution – pregnant women could swallow a camera that could be used to monitor their babies in the womb. A doctor had to patiently explain to him that the uterus and the stomach are very different organs and a camera swallowed cannot make it into the uterus and that there was no way to safety insert foreign matter into the womb during a pregnancy without risking killing the baby. If you live far away from a hospital you best hope men like Barbieri don’t influence the sort of prenatal care the women you care about receive.
So in a sense, knajjd11 isn’t alone with his misconceptions and even if we sympathize with him maybe we are okay in wanting him to pursue a non-STEM career.
knajjd11 is in a way a perfect example to use to show Andy and those who encounter mainly Tier 2 and Tier 3 incels online and in real life why so many people find incels revolting. It’s not just a lack of sympathy – it’s full out disgust. Andy would find it very difficult to remain sympathetic to any incel who looked at fatherhood through the following lens. knajjd11 wants to know how it is fathers can rear daughters without feeling like cucks:
This is a genuine question. I’ve been thinking about this for some time. It’s the ultimate form of cuckoldry, honestly. I mean, you try to raise her properly, provide for her and share her burdens, emotional or financial, for so many years, and when she gets to her prime ages, she starts “exploring her body”. In other words, being a worthless slag being pumped and dumped by Chads, gagging on their erect members as they push her head further into their penis, gargling their cum with joy, screaming for them to fuck her brains out while they press her head to the ground with their foot, her jumping on their 12 inch dongs as she calls them “daddy”, catering to their every sexual whim to continue being with them, getting drunk in parties and gangbanging with total strangers… Being a worthless dishrag to be used and discarded, until the clock starts ticking and she gets with a beta cuckold to provide for her. This is the life of many “modern age” female.
My question is, how can so many of you normies be happy having a “western”, a “modern” daughter after so many years of raising and caring for her selflessly? How can you not get sick seeing her turn into a slut for public use? How can you sit still and say “this is fine” while she’s nothing more than a object for Chads to use and throw away like a cumrag? How can you accept her serial “monogamy”, watching her jump from cock to cock? It makes me sick to my stomach. Answers are welcomed.
I guess conservative Catholic fathers could, on some level, assure themselves that their daughters would never be subject to such thinking because they exercise enough paternal guidance to prevent them from engaging in gangbangs and being treated like a “cumrag” while still teens. But conservative fathers would also be faced with the reality that no matter how virginal and obedient their daughters were, incels like knajjd11 assign a value to them based on nothing more than the loathsome thoughts that rattle around in their sex-starved brains and may treat them more like the whore, less like The Madonna.
But let’s be blunt here: knajjd11 is listed in Tier 6 because he is a self-confessed rapist. Specifically, he has confessed to having sex with a woman who got too drunk to give meaningful consent or even cognitively process that she was having sex. His own words, and if you don’t like any of the sources I use here, Google the name and just read all the garbage knajjd11 spread all over the Internet:
I haven’t overpowered anyone and it wasn’t rape, either, unless you’re the “omg i drank so much by my own volution (sic) so it was rape!!” sjw types.
When pressed for explanation it gets worse:
Have I forced someone to drink? Have I spiked someone’s drink? No. Men are predators by nature and its, quite frankly, mostly your fault if you get piss drunk and pass out.
Presumably it’s your fault too if knajjd11 also comes across you while you’re having a seizure, possibly drowning, or sprawled on the pavement after getting hit by a car or in any other situation a strict libertarian could lay the blame on you for. Surely you knew you had a seizure disorder when you left the house, that there was a chance you could drown if you got in water, and that cars often jump curbs and plow into pedestrians, especially in Toronto. You leave the house, you’ve made a decision that could end poorly for you and an incel might have sex with you while you are unconscious. (And more in that despicable vein when we get to our next incel.)
But don’t worry, no harm done because she wasn’t a virgin and she won’t remember any of it:
You are an SJW and a whitenight. I have done nothing wrong because it was not a virgin, the person definitely doesn’t know about it, and it was like 3 thrusts. No harm done whatsoever.
And let’s all speculate as to why knajjd11 refers to his victim as “it” and “the person.” Depersonalization is common when perpetrators recite the facts of the crimes they commit, using verbiage that strips their victim of personal and social identity. This happens when perps feel conflict about the crimes they commit, meaning knajjd11 may not be as firm in his belief that he did nothing wrong as he wants us to believe.
The person behind these words is a kid, relatively speaking. I’m old enough to be his mother. He has an almost angelic face but insists his short height is responsible for his lack of sexual success. At first glance, he seems like he would be such a nice young man. Is he this demented because the Internet makes it so easy for bad ideas to flourish? Was he always going to be this unsound?
Canino1997 (his real name is easily found online but I feel better not including it, even though he has linked his real name and photos to his user names), Tier 4 to 5
Canino1997 was a mod on a Discord channel devoted to incels called IncelAbode. He was also a mod on the now banned subreddit, r/incelheaven. His user name on Reddit was “SaintElliot.” Even among some of the rougher message boards Canino1997 stood out as so depraved that he bore special discussion. Canino1997 is notable for being a zoophile, meaning he likes the idea of having sex with animals (dogs, specifically in his case), also known as bestiality. But he took it to lengths that gave pause to even the most jaded observers of human behavior.
Canino1997 once decided it was a good idea to share an instructional manual on how young, sexually frustrated incels could have sex with dogs. Across various sites online Canino1997 verified that he is indeed the author. But wait, it gets worse! If you actually clicked that link and read the first sentence, you saw the following:
I was just as desperate out of inceldom. Heck, I even considered having sex with a dog cadaver that died outside my window but sadly the janitor threw it away before I could go out and get it at night.
Seriously, this young man, who in 2019 is only 21 or 22, was in 2016 so convinced of his incel status for the rest of his life that he considered having sex with a dead animal and was only denied because sanitation workers were on the ball. And the rest of it, if you read it, was a primer on how to violate animals for human sexual pleasure.
Canino1997 is deeply disturbing in almost every regard. He insists he only considers necro-zoophilia because women and society in general are so awful that he has no choice but to have sex with dead animals and write vaguely worded diatribes about how he’s going to run amok. He doesn’t want to run amok, mind you – we’ve evidently left him no choice. From the now-banned r/incelpurgatory, he justifies the violent rampage he wants to engage in:
I never wanted for stuff to go this far or for shit to get out of hand this badly. I had no say in the matter. My hand was forced. I don’t want to do this and I will take no joy in it. Even if what I will do is justified and it is beyond a doubt. I will take no pleasure in it. I never asked for any of this. I had over 4 years to reflect. I came to the conclusion that this is the right thing to do. Whatever happens in the coming days, weeks or months. The females and the system are to blame not only for my incel situation but for other things as well. My situation and the fact that I will be forced to do what I will do.
Canino1997 believes Elliot Rodger’s rampage was justified. From the now banned r/incel:
Elliot did nothing wrong or evil. He did something to end his suffering and delivered justice in the process. His heart was at the right place. He made them pay for the evil that was inflicted on him. The females made it come to that. They are the truly evil ones. The blood of the victims is on the hands of females that didn’t sleep with him. Elliot gave a just reaction to his situation.
Why would any woman want to risk a date with this kid? If a woman chooses not to have sex with him, he could kill other women and place the blame on her.
Canino1997, like most incels, is deeply self-loathing, but Canino takes it further than most. Even considering how much he hates himself, it’s hard to understand how a young man who is dark skinned and of mixed-race could ever praise Hitler, again from the now-banned r/incel:
If Hitler won the rise of feminism would have been delayed at least 40 years. We would have avoided a big part of the horrors that came with the sexual revolution. The world would have been a way better place for incels if Hitler won.
I guess to him this makes sense. This mixed-race young man would be fine living in the Fourth Reich with all the potential dangers such a political system implies for someone like him (both in terms of skin color and his clear mental instability) if it meant women took it on the chin and had to have sex with him or else.
And in case you need extra special proof that SaintElliot is Canino1997 and they both contemplated having sex with a dead dog and with dogs in general enough to write a “how-to-guide,” here he shows up to defend his good name, verifying all this information, because in his world view he makes perfect sense. In fact, Kiwi Farms has an excellent thread about Canino1997, wherein he frequently shares his theories and tries to explain why his belief system is not unsound.
Canino1997 is also a good example of the extraordinary entitlement of some incels, who literally think the government owes men a sexual partner. Canino1997 said the following:
Why should I work and contribute to a society that didn’t even provide me with 1 female. I don’t owe anybody shit.
Think this through with me. If he doesn’t owe anybody shit, why does the government owe him “1 female.” Why does that female owe him shit, let alone sex? Doesn’t matter and this is one of the reasons incels are seen as ridiculous, entitled crybabies. They hate the notion of entitlements for the poor, despise most forms of taxation and limits on their personal freedom. But that same government they want to cease welfare payments, tax collection, and prohibitions against sex with children should intrude into the lives of others to the extent that they create a program wherein men like Canino1997 are given a woman, who has no choice in the matter.
But it may not need to come to that if Canino1997 is able to convince lawmakers to permit him to sexually maul any unconscious woman he comes across or to have sex with cadavers. Christ, I wish I was kidding. I really do.
Under his SaintElliot name on Reddit, he suggested the following as a social incentive to encourage incels to save the lives of all the women they evidently stumble across nearly dead and in need of medical care:
Incels that find wounded/unconscious females should be allowed to sleep with them. This way the incel would get his salvation [in this context he means reward] for saving a life. Pussy is a sexual resource women provide. Incels should be allowed to sleep with wounded/unconscious females after they help them. As a finders fee for finding and helping them. For example, a female does fall off a cliff and begins to bleed out. An incel finds her and helps her stop the bleeding. The incel should be allowed to sleep with her as a finders fee since without him she would be dead.
All kinds of questions arise. One of them should not be if Canino1997 would rescue a dying woman now – no, he would not because he says he has no incentive. He’d let her die. But when exactly does he get to have sex with the injured woman? I mean, if he saves that woman who fell off the cliff and then sexes her up while they’re waiting for the ambulance, he may well kill her. Would that be murder? What if she loses a leg or is vomiting all over herself? Would he be forced to wait until EMTs can clean her up so she’s in a more fuckable state or does that matter. What if she’s married? What if his wife (yeah, I know, but bear with me) is hit by a car one day and can only get help if some dude like Canino1997 gets to rape her because he dragged her out of the road? What if she’s visibly pregnant? Left in a coma? Perhaps there is a rain check program he can implement once she’s recovered.
Here’s a slightly less barbaric yet still socially disgusting approach to getting incels laid: violating the dead. But hey, don’t get too upset because at least the incel in question will have to perform another civic duty:
Sex is a female resource. Organs are a human resource. I came up with a system that would exchange these sources in a way everybody would benefit. The pussy of details can be used even 2 days after death. Their sexual resources get wasted with the current system and people often die because there aren’t enough organ donors. Incels that are organ donors should be allowed to have sex with recently deceased females… If this proposal came true it would be killing two birds with one stone.
Why do I sense a rise in murder of young, attractive women by incel organ donors? Why do I suspect very few men, even the most desperate of incels, would want to have sex with a woman so injured she could bleed out and die without immediate help, or with her after she does bleed out and is on a morgue slab?
I’m going to end this talk about Canino1997 with a quick discussion about his tulpa because I need something a bit light-hearted at the moment. As those who study Theosophy already know, a tulpa is a physical entity brought into existence through intense spiritual concentration. Canino1997 was so lonely he wanted a tulpa. I am unsure if this tulpa was meant to be a friend or a sex partner but the fact remains that he attempted to create one. He failed. He was unable to do it because he lacked the imagination.
It’s right about here that I would feel some sympathy for him if I didn’t know he is okay with rape, having sex with living and dead animals, pedophilia, violating the injured, violating the dead, and genocide as long as it gets him sex. This is awful and gross and I consider it a small mercy that he claims he has kept all his ideas in the realm of thought and not deed. Still, it’s hard to muster much sympathy for him.
Let’s move on to the man who picked one of the best user names to represent him online.
Grotesque, Tier 5 and 6
Grotesque is the kind of incel who outright scares people. I’m pretty level-headed and have dwelt in uneasy places online long enough that I can see that Grotesque plays up his nastiness and in real life likely isn’t particularly menacing, but you never know. Elliot Rodger was an attractive, relatively polite, well-dressed young man who also ended up shooting and stabbing people to death. If I knew Grotesque in real life I would give him wide berth because Grotesque has a particular focus in his incel-ery and misogyny. He very much likes the idea of throwing acid in women’s faces.
More common in the Middle East and India, acid attacks are almost always waged against women, and specifically against women the male perpetrator either feels spurned by or in some manner desires and cannot have. They also happen as a form of punishment when a female “dishonors” her family. Grotesque wants to both scar women for life with this act of violence and he often seems sexually aroused by women who bear the scars of this violence. Grotesque is not a young man – he appears physically and in terms of the way he writes to be in his late 30s, early 40s. Grotesque’s real name is not known but he has linked images of the same man to various user names across the Internet and intrepid online sleuths have determined where he lives (evidently somewhere in New York).
Grotesque claims being treated poorly in job situations is why he is so violently unhinged now, and that he lives reasonably well on government payments. Plenty of free time has enabled him to share across a number of forums his fantasies and some of the repercussions he has received for antisocial behaviors. Over the course of more than a year, Grotesque has enjoyed sparring with some of the commenters on Kiwi Farms in the thread devoted to his appalling online activities. The online detectives on Kiwi Farms have pretty good evidence that Grotesque is also posting in various places as “Grotesquesubhuman, ” “Eugene Drizzledick” and “Unattractive Failure.” He seems to need to change his user names when he crosses even the very loose lines on incel and red pill forums and gets banned.
Grotesque’s fetish for throwing acid in women’s faces is well documented. If it’s a trolling attempt, it’s a long, excessively detailed one. He even uses as avatars faces of women scarred for life in acid attacks. He especially likes the image of a young glamor model in the UK, Katie Piper, whose ex-boyfriend tossed acid in her face as retribution for breaking up with him.
Grotesque is also notable for being one of the few incels who admits that his antisocial behaviors caused him legal trouble. He developed a sexual fixation on his therapist and delighted in upsetting her. He considers his therapist (whose name and Facebook he links to and even though it is now deleted I am not using her real name), Jane Doe, his “oneitis.” This is another incel linguistic mashup that incorporates the idea of having “one” true love as being a disease. Jane Doe is Grotesque’s one true love and he obsesses over her long after she jettisoned him from her practice. Why would a trained mental health professional decide to get rid of a difficult patient? Well, he said this to her, among other things (oh, and I will be using links to Kiwi Farms and various archives of the pages because incels.me has, you guessed it, ceased to exist):
I told my fat cunt counselor that I hoped her mother died due to her cancer, crying her last moments about her failure daughter never having kids and embarrassing her for decades.
He also said about her, some of which was clearly told to her:
No, I never stalked her.
She just knows about my acid facing desires, and that I wanted to rape her when I was a virgin.
And I don’t even want to acid face her now because she gained a ton of weight and her ass is gigantic now, along with guaranteeing herself that she’ll die alone, which is hilarious.
This is how he speaks to the woman he believes is his true love. Just remember that. What were the repercussions of this sort of behavior? Did she tolerate his abuse in a way reminiscent of Tony Soprano’s long suffering therapist?
She sent me a CEASE AND DESIST letter that I ignored and she had me arrested.
And then she got fired.
He links to her Facebook but it is now deleted so we can’t tell if the link was to some information that would tell us whether or she did get fired. Still, good for Jane Doe, getting this man out of her professional life. Her career seems to have survived her brush with this Grotesque. Should she ever find this thread, I hope she contacts me so I can send her a bouquet of roses and a taser. Especially since this is Grotesque’s response. First, he laments not getting to see her terrified:
I didn’t get to see her again after this, unfortunately.
She’s ‘deathly terrified’ of me.
How did she get him arrested?
I e-mailed her after she told me not to.
That’s enough to get one arrested in the US.
Everything’s been dropped twice now, but I have to go through lots of bullshit to get there.
Still worth it though since I fucked up her career.
Well, that’s enough to get one arrested in the US if you continue to send a person emails after they apply for and receive a restraining order against you. If it were possible to get someone arrested just for sending you nasty emails, incel-ery would no longer be a problem. Tier 3 and up would all be in jail.
But wait, Grotesque is sad because he seems to have no real idea why she went through the legal process to get a restraining order and then get him arrested when he violated it:
I never threatened her, nor said anything unkind to her.
It’s been over a year and I still have no idea why she’s doing this.
This conversation (you can view the whole thing here, and you probably should because you need to see that Grotesque was being cheered on as he told this story, cheered on by either trolls or men just like him) was posted in December, 2017, which means his arrest happened at the latest in December of 2016. And he’s still talking about it with glee and confusion since he doesn’t understand why she felt it necessary to remove him from her life.
There’s a perniciously nasty meme among Tier 5 wherein the ultimate form of cuckdom is to raise a daughter because you put all that money and time into raising a healthy, attractive daughter only to have her have sex under your nose with every Chad she can find. I discussed this notion with knajjd11 above. Grotesque has a solution for fathers who feel like they are being cucked by their daughters:
You can’t stop your daughter from fucking around. Unless you run Fritzl game.
Josef Fritzl kidnapped his daughter, imprisoned her in a basement and repeatedly raped her over the span of 24 years. She bore seven of his children, three whom were forced to live in the basement with her, three whom Fritzl and his wife raised, and one who died. Yes you can prevent your daughter from selecting her own sex partners by imprisoning and raping her continually yourself.
Here’s some other things Grotesque has said, to the delight of his fellow “incels”:
My optimal scenario is winning the heart of a female, then brutally raping her and ruining her reproductive organs, then acid facing her so she’ll be completely useless to society, then harass her into suicide.
I put incel in quotes above because Grotesque admits he has had a “fuck buddy,” a woman with whom he has a no-strings attached sexual relationship but she eventually dumps him for someone better. No fear, his “oneitis” therapist provides him with appalling fantasy fodder:
I’m 36, 2/10, and recently had sex.
Unfortunately the chubby cunt I was fucking openly left me for 4/10 Chad. I suppose he’s not Chad, that’s like Jahad.
Anyway, I don’t care, and I want to fuck more ugly whores. Including my counselor who will feel my incel pain in her stinky vagoo.
Also, I am not the individual who went Mr. Elliot Rodger.
Well thank god he cleared that up. Would hate to think this dude is violent until he actually follows through on acid facing a woman, as he so charmingly puts it. I am forcing myself to end here but there is so much more horribleness attached to this one man, and there is so much horribleness attached to all the men who respond to him.
Please, for the love of god, take note: Grotesque has access to sex but he posts on incel boards and is welcomed by the men on those boards. This should be a sign for what incel-ery is about once you leave the weird pseudoscience/deliberate ignorance in Tier 4. This advocacy is no longer about being an angst filled young man with a gawky build, acne and a sense that no woman will ever want him because there are so many Chads who overshadow him. This is about fantasies of violence, justifications for extraordinary cruelty, and glee at inspiring terror in women. His fantasy is not about finding a woman with a heart of gold who will love him faithfully until he dies. His fantasy is about brutal rape, facial disfigurement, bullying a woman he harmed into suicide. And this is said by a man who has access to sexual relationships. There is no sympathy for this man, and all the young men we should care about, who are navigating a new world with sexual landscapes their fathers don’t understand, are lumped into the same category that defines this depraved man. The same category that houses a self-confessed rapist and an erstwhile zoophile.
This sort of extremity is not hard to find. One does not have to spend much time to find this content, even after it has been banned. This is why “incels” are derided and subjected to the sort of mockery we show to those we fear yet whose rhetoric is so ridiculous we cannot believe anyone follows it. We’ve moved past the mockery of the kids who think tampons are masturbatory devices and the whining of young men who are convinced all women want to have sex with the quarterback. This is why intelligent people do not want to engage with incels on any level. This is all under the label “incel” and it’s horrible and it’s why we laugh. We laugh because sometimes the only alternative is to cry and it feels better to save tears for those who fall victim to incels who are inspired by the violent and disturbing things other incels say and do.
And honestly our mockery is better than anger, or at least it is for the incels. There’s no way Andy Nowicki knew details of what I produced in this very long and terribly gross article. I don’t think he wallows in the mire of the Internet the way I do. He’s a decent man trying to find his conservative Catholic bearings in the world and sees many incels through the eyes of a man who is himself appalled at certain elements of the modern world. But those of us who looked closely at the micro of incel-ery knew why we mock and this is why I, as a woman with plenty of sympathy for the devil, have none for Tier 3 and up. And if you do, by all means, share your opinion in the comments. Just don’t post anything that could be problematic for my site host and don’t be an asshole.
I am including links to other incel behaviors, threats and odd statements sorted out by the incel tier they best represent, though this is definitely an inexact process. I am sharing these links and images because I do not want to have to deal with the complaint that I am cherry-picking the worst of the worst for the bulk of the article. Assume about half of these individuals are trolling and you still walk away knowing there’s someone out there who wants to rape your cat because girls are mean and kill your mom if she doesn’t make eye contact with him the right way. Please forgive any flippant tone I may adopt here, but I think right now if I have to choose between anger and weary snark, the latter seems the better choice. Also, I have hundreds of such links to share and I will likely add to this section until I lose interest.
I also want to note that I specifically made the choice not to mention by name some of the more notorious members of incel communities because they are worse than Beetlejuice. You don’t even have to say their names three times before they’ve shown up and wrecked your comment section. Even so, here is a link to lolcow.farms, with a dossier on some of the more notable incels in the specific communities tracked at the time the thread was created. I have not vetted it for accuracy.
(And I tip my hat to Kiwi Farms and Lolcow Farm for documenting this in their own ways. People had told me Kiwi Farms was a right wing suicide factory but from what I can see they pretty much mock anyone who is mockable or reprehensible regardless of any sort of political or social affiliation – I was most appreciative of their work running some really vile zoosadists to ground and DO NOT READ THOSE THREADS. Don’t even search for them. But back to incels: I had so many bookmarks but had not archived them because I guess I thought the world was used to this sort of thing and didn’t see coming the continual bans of communities that host ideas like this. Without the archive of screen shots, direct uploads and archive.is saves, so much of this would have been lost to the ether due to community deletions. Oh, and this online censorship mostly ensures these dudes meet in places normies like us don’t frequent. I can’t even imagine what they’re talking about on sites accessible solely through TOR. Sunlight is and always will be the best disinfectant, so let the incels post their perspectives openly and without deletion and that way we can keep an eye on them and reduce at least some of the surprise when a few in their ranks run amok.)
Haven’t found any yet, but it bears mentioning they aren’t likely to post in the sorts of communities I’ve been researching.
Incel desperation leading to more humiliation
Incels in literature and pop culture
Melodrama Jesus Christ!
Run, Forrest, run!
Sad boy statements
Sooo close to self-awareness
Store clerks wrecking incel shit
Bitterness with a side of incest
If she’s wearing lipstick she’s a congenital liar hiding a Medusa head
The only thing worse than an incel is another incel
Points of philosophy
Super Sad Boy Statements
These are totally not trivial reasons to hate women
Where all the sex robots at
Yeah, that happened…
Generic examples of why women may not enjoy incel company
Points of Philosophy
Weird Science/Women: Let’s Talk About Labia
Too much sex twists and stretches labia into flaps and discolors them, too (they are obsessed with perfect, pink, innie labia majora and non-existent labia minora, yet denounce the porn that convinced them this is the only attractive form a vulva can take)
What a Stacy wants
Stacy craves 7.5 inch or larger wrists (I shit you not, this is real, he thinks he is being cucked by his thin wrists, like women haven’t visually wallowed in the vascular hands and thin wrists of rock guitarists for decades, why are they like this, what the hell?)
All rape threats, all the time
Bestiality/Treating women like animals
Gross dudes are gross
Mass Murderer Worship
Normies ruin everything
Oh, shit, there may be consequences for all these things I do!
Consequences subsection: The Virgin Surgeon Saga
One incel’s unsettling relationship with his sister
Rare, genuine post about a desire to change and cease harming others due to incel status
Store clerks wrecking incel shit
Talkin’ ’bout a revolution
Talkin’ ’bout controlling women/Slavery is good, too
Vengeance against women and normies !
Tier Six (very few, thank heavens)